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State of OKW in the meta

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5 Aug 2020, 08:50 AM
#21
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 166

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 07:32 AMRIZAs


UKF are fine right now except for the UC with Vicker K..
it just.. volks feel so shitty early on vs anything for it cost
and for USF
long range engagement is rarely happened expecially in early game
and the only window where volks outgun them is only small.. which the the time where volks get their early STG upgrade..
and on late game.. pretty sure usf will outgun them with double bar


Well I honestly dont know, out of three Allied factions only UKF feels over the top vs OKW. Maybe if OKW tech was in general better and not so punishing for choses, where you need to always sacrifice something what is needed.

Because aside from that match up vs sov\usf is somewhat fair, at the same time USF in general is the most oppresive faction in 1v1.

You cant really do anything to volks in regards of buffing initial stats, because it might ruin them vs soviets.
5 Aug 2020, 08:55 AM
#22
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2077

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 07:42 AMRIZAs


OKW actually have a good early anti mg option
which is.. early tech nade
and flamer exist in firestorm doctrine
brits have downside which is
1.small squad and at pretty high cost
2.IS is really bad without cover and assaulting
3.nearly all commander is niche
4.the lack of anti garrison tool beside pyrotech which is very expensive
and their downside is very noticeable
5.their elite is dedicated CQC before getting an upgrade
the problem i think is on OKW mainline
instead of UKF
before the buff and rework UKF feel really bad at 1v1
now they are decent at it
and they fight pretty equally for it cost vs grens at all timeframe and mode



uhm..what?

- flame nade is not a good anti mg mechanic since u need come in range 20 to use it.. its only works when the mg is alone and the brits dont care about flanks

1. small squads? what is on 5min 5models squad small? high cost...yeah..u can get upgrade a IS into obers performanche...sure they arent cheap...but they have sandbags, trenches, gammo bombs, grenades, AOE healing on the move, arty callin...more view range then scouting units...heavy cover bonus...and since the last patch even without bonus.

2. IS arent "really bad" without cover. look to tightrope vids where he made comparison between volks and IS...with 5models upgrade they outgun volks without cover

3. what? they have great commander choices with even better options than most other factions

4. WTF? they have sniper, UC with flamer, grenades, emplacments, own mg with win vs axis mg when in buildings...pls learn to use anti mg options from brits

5. now they get into cheese and to strong position since they have no downside and all great tools from all other factions, like 17pounder, great offmaps, great TD, great medium and great heavy tanks


5 Aug 2020, 09:16 AM
#23
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 166



The DO have downsides, problem is they dont have clear downsides against OKW and its not persistant downsides.

They suffers badly against Ost sniper, they suffers against Ost mortar and so on. Pretty much they suffers from anything but mainline inf early on, at the same time OKW has ONLY mainline inf early on and all.

OKW early\mid powerspikes comes in form of a vehicles be it Luchs or AA HT, but its hard countered by AEC most of the time, AEC not nessesery kills it, but limits its usage.
5 Aug 2020, 09:30 AM
#24
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 300


The DO have downsides, problem is they dont have clear downsides against OKW and its not persistant downsides.

They suffers badly against Ost sniper, they suffers against Ost mortar and so on. Pretty much they suffers from anything but mainline inf early on, at the same time OKW has ONLY mainline inf early on.


But on the other hand, they have the strongest late game and mid game, especially in team games. At least OKW that I play against. Also, the guy that built 2x sturms and 2x kubel. It's a pretty good build vs USF. A couple of days ago I went vs that build on Across the Rheine. On the beach side, sturms went to heavy cover fuel, kubel was behind them and other sturms charged my heavy cover (VP sandbag) rifleman and won the engagement (5v4,5v3,4v3,3v3,3v2,2v2 - I retreat). Then my 2nd rifles coming to help were pushed back by 2 model sturms and kubel. Basically I had no chance with echelons -> rifle -> rifle -> rifle vs sturms->sturms->kubel->kubel on that map which is green cover rich around fuel and VP, especially with sturms being starting unit vs my echelons.

While I agree that volks before the upgrade are lackluster, they are also cheaper. Until the vet and upgrade, you really need to keep them long range, cover only. But that's why you need to play smart. I've seen 2 good OKW players win vs 2 of my brit allies (3OKW vs 2xbrit + my USF on whiteball). Basically in each VP "lane" they used volks as bait for IS and flanked with sturms. Both fell for that.
Point is, while they are weaker, you have to adapt playing vs different factions. Don't force all the fights. IN 1v1 it is most prominent. The ability to gauge which fights and when to take them are probably the most important thing in 1v1. You play as OKW vs UKF on a map which favors UKF?
Be smart. I think there is even a loading screen tip that says the best commanders know which fights to take. Something like that. It's true that in early game, chances are OKW will lose to UKF, but you have to play around those chances.
Don't complain about the hand you've been dealt, learn to play with it.
5 Aug 2020, 10:32 AM
#28
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1303

What a thread! UKF is worse than OKW! Just hard to comment the opinion of so many "professionals". Let's just buff the mighty UKF!
5 Aug 2020, 10:44 AM
#29
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2904 | Subs: 1

What a thread! UKF is worse than OKW! Just hard to comment the opinion of so many "professionals". Let's just buff the mighty UKF!


Yeah buff UKF and nerf Soviets and OKW.

Balance achieved.
5 Aug 2020, 10:44 AM
#30
avatar of GachiGasm

Posts: 166

I dont want to point it out but

U.K.F. - U means Underpowered, F means F for respect because you die
O.K.W. - O means Overpowered, W is Win

Dont know what K is, but probably its a blast from the past and old design.

So please. Only untter one faction hero with 10 digit rank coudnt notice this.
5 Aug 2020, 11:45 AM
#31
avatar of RIZAs

Posts: 11




uhm..what?

- flame nade is not a good anti mg mechanic since u need come in range 20 to use it.. its only works when the mg is alone and the brits dont care about flanks

1. small squads? what is on 5min 5models squad small? high cost...yeah..u can get upgrade a IS into obers performanche...sure they arent cheap...but they have sandbags, trenches, gammo bombs, grenades, AOE healing on the move, arty callin...more view range then scouting units...heavy cover bonus...and since the last patch even without bonus.

2. IS arent "really bad" without cover. look to tightrope vids where he made comparison between volks and IS...with 5models upgrade they outgun volks without cover

3. what? they have great commander choices with even better options than most other factions

4. WTF? they have sniper, UC with flamer, grenades, emplacments, own mg with win vs axis mg when in buildings...pls learn to use anti mg options from brits

5. now they get into cheese and to strong position since they have no downside and all great tools from all other factions, like 17pounder, great offmaps, great TD, great medium and great heavy tanks




flame nade is not a good MG mechanic.. you joking right
1.270 manpower for 4 squad is pretty expensive for something that basically a bootleg grenadier with stronger incover and weaker out of cover... and they dont have snare which is a MASSIVE drawback
and IS fighting capability is far from ober
2.volks is the problem not the damned IS fault
usually in midgame when both of them already upgraded one with 5 man one with STG.. both of them fight equally without cover... not long until the big bad weapon rack upgrade come
3.you sure? since nearlly all UKF doctrine feel very awkward in 1v1 unlike the other doctrine.. because usually theres one or more useless or bad ability inside it
4.you seriously 1v1ing vicker with your own mg? Kappa vicker supressiom without vet and garrison is really bad and they just really good inside garrison.. uc with flamer have slightly faster timing than 222 and its actually ok.. but the Vicker K is the one that creating havoc
"pls learn learn to uses anti mg as british"
oh please teach me brother...
5.17 pounder has no drawback? immobile lot of cost and pop cap is not a drawback? ok
their late game tank are strong and can fight equally vs their axis counterpart TD is ok not really that strong and the offmap.. i agree with that.. they have the strongest offmap in the game
5 Aug 2020, 11:57 AM
#32
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 652

If Sander's proposed tech changes make it to the live build OKW will be in a pretty good spot.
5 Aug 2020, 12:19 PM
#33
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2077

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2020, 11:45 AMRIZAs


flame nade is not a good MG mechanic.. you joking right
1.270 manpower for 4 squad is pretty expensive for something that basically a bootleg grenadier with stronger incover and weaker out of cover... and they dont have snare which is a MASSIVE drawback
and IS fighting capability is far from ober
2.volks is the problem not the damned IS fault
usually in midgame when both of them already upgraded one with 5 man one with STG.. both of them fight equally without cover... not long until the big bad weapon rack upgrade come
3.you sure? since nearlly all UKF doctrine feel very awkward in 1v1 unlike the other doctrine.. because usually theres one or more useless or bad ability inside it
4.you seriously 1v1ing vicker with your own mg? Kappa vicker supressiom without vet and garrison is really bad and they just really good inside garrison.. uc with flamer have slightly faster timing than 222 and its actually ok.. but the Vicker K is the one that creating havoc
"pls learn learn to uses anti mg as british"
oh please teach me brother...
5.17 pounder has no drawback? immobile lot of cost and pop cap is not a drawback? ok
their late game tank are strong and can fight equally vs their axis counterpart TD is ok not really that strong and the offmap.. i agree with that.. they have the strongest offmap in the game



a 20range flamenade needs be thrown into the mg/ building. which means u need to walk up. a good anti MG mechanic out range a MG. this means u arent in trouble to make the mg move. and a well possition MG ...maybe even saved by other MG is not possible to flame nade it. so yeah..flamenade is only good vs MG when the enemy dont focus this combat or is circled by a lot more units than he have at this time.

5 Aug 2020, 12:30 PM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15712 | Subs: 7

a good anti MG mechanic out range a MG.

Flamer M3 does not outrange MG.
Flame 251 does not outrange MG.
WASP does not ourtange MG.
Flamer 250 does not outrange MG.
Infiltration troops do not outrange MG.
Flanking with 2 squads at opposite edges of firing arc does not outrange MG.
Rifle nades(both ost ability and USF upgrade) do not outrange MG.

Sniper will counter garrisoned MG, but its not super effective counter with 50% hit chance.

Exclusively mortars/ISG will outrange MG.

Not worth mentioning anything else, because this is clearly about early game.

So, cut the bullshit.
5 Aug 2020, 12:58 PM
#35
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2077


Flamer M3 does not outrange MG.
Flame 251 does not outrange MG.
WASP does not ourtange MG.
Flamer 250 does not outrange MG.
Infiltration troops do not outrange MG.
Flanking with 2 squads at opposite edges of firing arc does not outrange MG.
Rifle nades(both ost ability and USF upgrade) do not outrange MG.

Sniper will counter garrisoned MG, but its not super effective counter with 50% hit chance.

Exclusively mortars/ISG will outrange MG.

Not worth mentioning anything else, because this is clearly about early game.

So, cut the bullshit.


all of this option you suggest is not aviable on OKW. Unless you suggest flanking a MG which isnt saved by any other support or even MG which save the flank. So no early anti MG mechanic for OKW.
5 Aug 2020, 13:03 PM
#36
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15712 | Subs: 7



all of this option you suggest is not aviable on OKW. Unless you suggest flanking a MG which isnt saved by any other support or even MG which save the flank. So no early anti MG mechanic for OKW.

You've made general statement, never once mentioned OKW in the post.
Also both OKW tech paths have garrison hardcounters and early game you can just get other part of the map.
In fact, the only faction that does not have problems with HMGs in garrisons in early game are T1 M3 soviets, all the other factions have as much trouble as OKW and get counters at similar timing as OKW with some minor variations depending on general tech or BO differences.

OKW isn't separate struggling victim here, sorry.
5 Aug 2020, 13:46 PM
#38
avatar of RIZAs

Posts: 11


You've made general statement, never once mentioned OKW in the post.
Also both OKW tech paths have garrison hardcounters and early game you can just get other part of the map.
In fact, the only faction that does not have problems with HMGs in garrisons in early game are T1 M3 soviets, all the other factions have as much trouble as OKW and get counters at similar timing as OKW with some minor variations depending on general tech or BO differences.

OKW isn't separate struggling victim here, sorry.

based
5 Aug 2020, 13:58 PM
#39
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 545

OKW is in a tough position, especially battlegroup HQ tech route. Its not "unplayable" but I definitely feel like I just dont have the tools necessary to deal with certain compositions I come across at specific times; or that the tools I have are insufficient or innefficient or both.

For example:
It really sucks having to rely on a Raketen(or PFS from specific commanders) to prevent excessive bleed from M3s and UCs. Given im paying 290MP in the early game when I need every combat squad I can get my hands on, having to sacrifice a volks for a dedicated anti tank weapon is really rough unless i can guarantee a kill on the light vehicle which too often I cannot.



A potential solution to the above problem is locking faults behind truck purchase rather then needing a tech fully established, but its only one of several issues OKW has atm.
5 Aug 2020, 17:44 PM
#40
avatar of BetterDead ThanRed

Posts: 72

Ullumullu is correct Katitof, OKW struggles vs UKF when it comes to timing of units on the field, and OKW early on sacrifices alot to counter mg's, UC's, IS's, and needs to divert large resources non-doc to combat those, and other things, while the UKF builds up forces/caches/techs up while the OKW goes for expensive solutions to counter what the UKF did 5 mins ago
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