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russian armor

"Close the pocket" OP?

28 Jun 2020, 20:18 PM
#21
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 368



k, show it then


What a wonderful way of arguing. Next time anyone complains about anything being OP I simply demand him to waste multiple hours in order to collect some useless video footage, that contributes nothing to the actual discussion.


Perimeter Overwatch OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine

Isu 152 + Il2 Bombs / Elephant + Stuka OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine

I am not gonna waste my time collecting this footage for you, since the odds for getting Red Ball AND having a losing battle in the first place are rather slim. I could show you one recording from my last match where I turned a losing battle into a victory by using this ability, however you probably would simply shrug it off, as the enemy was around rank 1800.

But anyways ... here are some Videos from youtube, that show how strong this ability can be:

A older video, but as far as I know close the pocket was not really touched in the past 4 years ?!?

A Replay from Skippy

28 Jun 2020, 20:35 PM
#22
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 122



What a wonderful way of arguing. Next time anyone complains about anything being OP I simply demand him to waste multiple hours in order to collect some useless video footage, that contributes nothing to the actual discussion.


Perimeter Overwatch OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine

Isu 152 + Il2 Bombs / Elephant + Stuka OP ? K, first show me how you win three matches in a row with it, otherwise it is fine

I am not gonna waste my time collecting this footage for you, since the odds for getting Red Ball AND having a losing battle in the first place are rather slim. I could show you one recording from my last match where I turned a losing battle into a victory by using this ability, however you probably would simply shrug it off, as the enemy was around rank 1800.

But anyways ... here are some Videos from youtube, that show how strong this ability can be:

A older video, but as far as I know close the pocket was not really touched in the past 4 years ?!?

A Replay from Skippy



I see noobs getting stomped 2 times. Any other doctrine would have achieved victory nonetheless.
28 Jun 2020, 21:06 PM
#23
avatar of YRon²y

Posts: 200

It's honestly not OP as some people think it is. It's more of a trick used agianst low rank players who don't know what they're dealing with.

If you don't know how to react to this, do the following:
- put caches
- (when close pocket is active) retreat every unit! Opponent will get a bit of map control, but for managing to pull it off, it's what he disurves. The arty might get a support weapon kill(atguns mostly(no retreat function))
- recapture asap.
- prevent him from capping the cut-offs.
- Win game xD.

It's also a very map dependant ability and you see it coming from miles away.

It's not first post about this too...

So no, i don't think it is OP.
28 Jun 2020, 22:12 PM
#24
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4462

The very most I could see in changes to CTP is more of a ramping effect to give the player more time to be forgiven for getting completely cut off. Maybe apply a temporary disabling of points (like the scorched earth ability for soviet) just to split the difference
28 Jun 2020, 23:28 PM
#25
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7409 | Subs: 1

I've just realised that this works better on 4v4 cause in that mode there's no good reason to ever attempt a cut off play.

So players are not used to it or know that is possible. Change my mind.
28 Jun 2020, 23:52 PM
#26
avatar of PanzerGeneralForever

Posts: 1072

The entire commander is based around closing the pocket and is a terrible commander without it.

I don't see how 4 players can let the enemy destroy both your cutoff caches, decap the points, and keep them cutoff for even a few moments.
When you pull it off its you deserve the reward for your risk, when it's pulled off against you, it's time for bed cause you ain't paying attention.

You either remove it from the game or leave it as it is.

There are so many ways to prevent this from happening in a game and shutdown the entire commander it's not even funny

29 Jun 2020, 00:34 AM
#27
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 268

I hold a grudge for this ability because in one 4v4 match on redbull, a team absolutely ablitterated us with it.

I watch a replay (I might still have it, it is old) because surly I coudnt be so careless but now I know why.

The team all coordinated it, as we pushes into their side of their map and their elefant they stuka one point and then used the supply break ability to destroy the cashe and take out the point.

The other point they pushed for and managed to push for and destroy the cashe dropping falls afterwords to neutralize the point and then activated the ability absolutely decimating us who were about to secure the win.

So my conclusion about this ability is that it is a one trick pony that needs to be executed perfectly. This team knew it that is why I never saw a storm trooper or any other ability used besides break supply chain and closed the pocket.

Kudos to them but it felt like we were cheated as they were clearly loosing.

The ability is so rare I don't care if nothing happens, it's more of a map issue anyway.

Edit: now that I think about it, if their are 4 ostheer players they could possibly just stuka the 2 points to recap them.
29 Jun 2020, 00:40 AM
#28
avatar of Latch

Posts: 679

if someone manages to use it well, he deserves the win


Because clicking twice is incredibly hard to pull off?
29 Jun 2020, 00:43 AM
#29
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2290 | Subs: 2

If we would wanna change and nerf things that are "unfun" and an "issue" for totally casual players... then the list of things that need to be changed would become endless.

I have 6000 hours in CoH2 and I have never EVER had someone successfully pulling off close the pocket against me. And at least 20 people if not more tried it already
29 Jun 2020, 04:23 AM
#30
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 598

I've just realised that this works better on 4v4 cause in that mode there's no good reason to ever attempt a cut off play.

So players are not used to it or know that is possible. Change my mind.


Brutal.
29 Jun 2020, 04:43 AM
#31
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1547

If we would wanna change and nerf things that are "unfun" and an "issue" for totally casual players... then the list of things that need to be changed would become endless.

I have 6000 hours in CoH2 and I have never EVER had someone successfully pulling off close the pocket against me. And at least 20 people if not more tried it already


Create a new account, be teamed with rank 6000 players for your first 10 matches, then eventually you will probably experience it. I've had it happen to me a couple times playing randoms. What is really annoying about it is that some people still don't recognize it or what it does, and don't try to stop it.

Other than that ability, the commander is really weak. I don't think it should be changed.
29 Jun 2020, 08:35 AM
#32
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

The entire commander is based around closing the pocket and is a terrible commander without it.

I don't see how 4 players can let the enemy destroy both your cutoff caches, decap the points, and keep them cutoff for even a few moments.
When you pull it off its you deserve the reward for your risk, when it's pulled off against you, it's time for bed cause you ain't paying attention.

You either remove it from the game or leave it as it is.

There are so many ways to prevent this from happening in a game and shutdown the entire commander it's not even funny



The doctrine could quite easily be changed to one with a theme of cutting off supply lines with stormtroopers buffed for this purpose. (Increased damage vs cache and decap). This would make it viable in competitive play and remove unfun cheese from average/noob level play that frustrates many players.

With specialist stormtroopers and rest of doctrine buffed you could remove close the pocket and replace it with an arty call in. Basically it would be the ostheer version of Partisan tactics.

I can see why people like stomping noobs with a cheese ability players don't understand how to counter though.
29 Jun 2020, 13:17 PM
#33
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 135

I am really surprised, that (almost ) noone ever complained about this ability.
It can basically destroy the entire enemy army for just some ammunition.

There are two things in particular, that made me come to the conclusion, that this ability is OP ( I am someone that frequently abused this ability myself, so this is not a one sided " I lost to this , so plz nerf " - Post ) :

- It fires way too fast, once you are cut off you often have not enough time to retreat your troops

- Even before the first shell lands, it somehow puts all your vehicles in a " engaging enemy" state. What does this mean ? Well ... when you are using the " repair vehicle" ability of the Russian tanks ( the one from Guards Motor Regiment for instance ) you can only disable the ablity when you are not in combat. So your tanks can not switch out of " repair mode " and will wait, until the combat is over, which results in their destruction in this case.

Also: - The " capture points " ability for Vehicles is way too fast. It should be a little bit slowed down in order to give the enemy time to react.



yes, op, indeed
29 Jun 2020, 14:39 PM
#34
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 827

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 00:40 AMLatch


Because clicking twice is incredibly hard to pull off?


So winning a game by VPs is actually easy AF since you just click units to cap them and then watch them tick down, right?

Thats the same (lack of) logic
29 Jun 2020, 14:46 PM
#35
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 333 | Subs: 1

I've just realised that this works better on 4v4 cause in that mode there's no good reason to ever attempt a cut off play.

So players are not used to it or know that is possible. Change my mind.


My mind is blown. So much now makes sense.
29 Jun 2020, 15:42 PM
#36
avatar of Grim

Posts: 908

With an arranged team on redball/whiteball express this is pretty easy to pull off, although everything is pretty easy if you're an arranged team vs randos.

You just have to call storm troopers in on the house hidden in each of the corners and hide until you have pzshreks to destroy any caches for one side.

Then try use storms/pz4 rush with the fuel ability on the other point.

Even easier if there are no caches or two players using the same commander.

It's very situational though and the commander is very distinctive on the loading screen, so if I see him I always keep a close eye on the cut-off points.

Most of the time it will just result in the Encirclement player throwing units away trying to decap points behind enemy lines.

So all in all I think it's fine.

29 Jun 2020, 18:02 PM
#37
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1081

This commander should be reworked that's for sure, sometimes its useless and sometimes with good team there is no way u will stop this but ok its "balanced", maybe add something similar to partizant doctrine why not?
29 Jun 2020, 18:12 PM
#38
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2981 | Subs: 1

I've just realised that this works better on 4v4 cause in that mode there's no good reason to ever attempt a cut off play.

So players are not used to it or know that is possible. Change my mind.


Absolutely agree, remove all cutoff play from coh2 and make like 10 points connected to the base sector on every map. 4v4 players are the majority and the game should be dumbed down to I MEAN BALANCED ACCORDING TO THIER NEEDS.
29 Jun 2020, 18:21 PM
#39
avatar of Latch

Posts: 679



So winning a game by VPs is actually easy AF since you just click units to cap them and then watch them tick down, right?

Thats the same (lack of) logic


Try again, but take your blinkers off. Stuka dive bomb to decap the cut off, then click close the pocket, all without using a single unit.

29 Jun 2020, 19:21 PM
#40
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post29 Jun 2020, 18:21 PMLatch


Try again, but take your blinkers off. Stuka dive bomb to decap the cut off, then click close the pocket, all without using a single unit.



Last time I checked, in team games you have more than one cut off so u do need to send units to cap the other points. And yes, u deserve to lose if u don't have a cache. Just like u deserve to lose if u don't have an Ele when there's an ISU.

Just stay out of topics u have no knowledge of, Latch.
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