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SU-76 - A Slight Adjustment

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2 Jun 2020, 12:05 PM
#61
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1


Or, now listen to me, just focus on actual problems of the unit, underused barrage,

The barrage is fine, it seperior to that of the Zis gun
You can actually see my suggestions about the barrage


unsuitable vet1

Tracking is actually too suitable since it allows the to self spot for barrages


and survivability trouble.

and if you see my suggestions I suggest armor and HP


I do admit, however, your commitment to spin any thread possible into nerfing just one more allied unit thread, even if the thread is about buffing underused and underperforming unit is noteworthy.

The unit is underused but is not underperforming it is a cost efficient unit.

You simply can not avoid dropping you poison in everything you post can you?
2 Jun 2020, 12:07 PM
#62
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1



The barrage can be made less leathal to balance it out. As it stands no1 gets it even with the arty being stronger then a zis3.
The same can be done with the mobility vet buff,s if its vet 0 mobility gets buffed.

If the unit has barrage that cost nearly as much a grenade why would anyone build a mortar with an inferior barrage?
2 Jun 2020, 12:17 PM
#63
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 143

Yeah no, the 60 range stug was meant to be a joke.
But to be honest: OST has no non-doc 60 range vehicle and people are discussing about a quite cheap tank that could then even outrange OSTs indirect fire options.

Thats a little hard to understand for me.

SU76 is missing a role and i totally agree with that. But for what it costs i'd say it functions really good.
2 Jun 2020, 12:22 PM
#64
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

But to be honest: OST has no non-doc 60 range vehicle and people are discussing about a quite cheap tank that could then even outrange OSTs indirect fire options.


You don't need a 60range vehicle.

You have the pak40 which is excellent and has stun
You have pgrens with shreks and sprint near vehicles
You have P4s with blitz
You have StuGG with stun and excellent performance
You have the Panther which is durable and can safely dive for kills and escape

You don't need a 60range vehicle.
2 Jun 2020, 12:23 PM
#65
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 2873 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jun 2020, 09:05 AMVipper

Accuracy went up and penetration went down:
SU-76

The SU-76 is receiving a number of slight changes to improve its role against light and medium vehicles with only a slight reduction against heavy tanks.

Accuracy from 0.05/0.035/0.025 to 0.05/0.04/0.0375
Penetration from 200/190/180 to 180/170/160
Rotation rate from 30 to 32

Keep in mind that it also get an accuracy as a vet bonus...

The SU-76 once has decent TTK vs mediums especially once vetted and a significant range advantage while being cheaper than stug and fighting the more expensive PzIV.

Thanks. Yes that was I was looking for, misremembered it obviously.

Comparison to StuG would be nice, but I'll look it up later myself
2 Jun 2020, 12:30 PM
#66
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Jun 2020, 22:34 PMVipper

Any reason why it should have crush human in the first place?

Nope, but you weren't saying to Remo e human crush you were saying the mobility buff was bad. If it is indeed possible to isolate the 2 there is no reason for human crush, but if it has it the 76 isn't going to become a new m 10 because of a few key differences including being behind tech with a t70 in it.
2 Jun 2020, 13:09 PM
#67
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13286 | Subs: 1


Nope, but you weren't saying to Remo e human crush you were saying the mobility buff was bad. If it is indeed possible to isolate the 2 there is no reason for human crush, but if it has it the 76 isn't going to become a new m 10 because of a few key differences including being behind tech with a t70 in it.

Let me clear any misunderstanding:

1) I have made the point that if the unit becomes more mobile it needs to lose the crush human which it does need in the first place.

2) OP has suggest that the unit should have base stat mobility increase to:

Acceleration 2.3
Deceleration 4.4
Rotation 32->3.6-38
Speed 6.3->6.7-6.9

Given that the unit already get mobility bonus via veterancy +25%

That would make the unit have:
Acceleration 2.3
Deceleration 4.4
Rotation 45-47.5
Speed 6.7-6.9

and it would be one of the most mobile units with mobility superior to the Panther.

That would make a nuisance do deal with since if properly microed it would able to kite from outside the range of most unit and barrage ATGs.

I see no real reason to turn the unit into a kite unit unless the profile of the gun is changed to be inline with Puma with low accuracy penetration at max range.
2 Jun 2020, 13:09 PM
#68
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241



You don't need a 60range vehicle.

You have the pak40 which is excellent and has stun
You have pgrens with shreks and sprint near vehicles
You have P4s with blitz
You have StuGG with stun and excellent performance
You have the Panther which is durable and can safely dive for kills and escape

You don't need a 60range vehicle.


all this is countered easily with 60 range TDs and some AI / indirect fire...AI takes out pgrens/ AT gun and 60range TDs deal easily with ost nondoc armor
2 Jun 2020, 13:10 PM
#69
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



all this is countered easily with 60 range TDs and some AI / indirect fire...AI takes out pgrens/ AT gun and 60range TDs deal easily with ost nondoc armor


Well maybe if you didn't face better players who played better then they wouldn't be getting countered.

git gud
2 Jun 2020, 13:13 PM
#70
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241



Well maybe if you didn't face better players who played better then they wouldn't be getting countered.

git gud


i counter you anything easily which can ost nodoc field with ptrs penals, mg and SU85.

satchel prevent any div in and mg deny pgrens and 60 range td wait for an attack...since su has more view range than shot range...it can easily provide nice recon
2 Jun 2020, 13:18 PM
#71
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8



i counter you anything easily which can ost nodoc field with ptrs penals, mg and SU85.

satchel prevent any div in and mg deny pgrens and 60 range td wait for an attack...since su has more view range than shot range...it can easily provide nice recon

I guess you just alt+F4 when opponent gets combination of AI and AT units, because now regardless of what you do, its all hardcountered.
2 Jun 2020, 13:19 PM
#72
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



i counter you anything easily which can ost nodoc field with ptrs penals, mg and SU85.

satchel prevent any div in and mg deny pgrens and 60 range td wait for an attack...since su has more view range than shot range...it can easily provide nice recon



PTRS Penals are utter garbage
Dshkas deathloop and are super slow to retreat
SU85 can easily be flanked

Git gud
2 Jun 2020, 13:27 PM
#73
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 632




PTRS Penals are utter garbage
Dshkas deathloop and are super slow to retreat
SU85 can easily be flanked

Git gud


Easy fixes. Give penals seven man upgrade at the same time as cons, reduce cost of dshka by ~35% and give su85 a substantial buff to acceleration + wider cone of vision and +10 range while in focus mode
2 Jun 2020, 14:13 PM
#74
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

PTRS Penals are utter garbage

SU85 can easily be flanked



He does kinda have a point, in teamgames Ostheer can really struggle against Allied TD and rocket arty combos because they lack a 60 range TD. Infantry based AT (Schrecks and Pak 40) usually just get annihilated by artillery. PTRS Penals obviously have no real AT DPS late game but they prevent flanks because even a full health Panther will get engine damage from the AT satchel. Not to mention Panthers simply don't work well on certain maps. Ostheer combined arms can work but it's really not as easy as you're making it out to be. It's one of the reasons the Elefant is used almost every game because it's the best thing in Ostheer's arsenal that can reliably counter Allied TDs.

I consider a 60 range TD to be one of the core faction tools (amongst indirect fire and flamethrowers) that every faction should've had by default and the fact that Ostheer doesn't have one does hurt their versatility and strength. They currently have enough to compensate (again, mostly relying on the Elefant), but it isn't ideal.
2 Jun 2020, 14:21 PM
#75
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



He does kinda have a point, in teamgames Ostheer can really struggle against Allied TD and rocket arty combos because they lack a 60 range TD. Infantry based AT (Schrecks and Pak 40) usually just get annihilated by artillery. PTRS Penals obviously have no real AT DPS late game but they prevent flanks because even a full health Panther will get engine damage from the AT satchel. Not to mention Panthers simply don't work well on certain maps. Ostheer combined arms can work but it's really not as easy as you're making it out to be. It's one of the reasons the Elefant is used almost every game because it's the best thing in Ostheer's arsenal that can reliably counter Allied TDs.

I consider a 60 range TD to be one of the core faction tools (amongst indirect fire and flamethrowers) that every faction should've had by default and the fact that Ostheer doesn't have one does hurt their versatility and strength. They currently have enough to compensate (again, mostly relying on the Elefant), but it isn't ideal.


My point is you can fight against it if you fight properly, it's not an autowin like he presents it.

Plus you get the Elephant in teamgames.
2 Jun 2020, 15:03 PM
#76
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351



My point is you can fight against it if you fight properly, it's not an autowin like he presents it.

Plus you get the Elephant in teamgames.

You keep repeating myths imo. It is difficult to play against allied combined arms as they have everything now: long range, often self spotting tank destroyers and incredibly effective snares plus quick/cheap repair options. They also have really heavily armoured vehicles. In the past they were supposed to have longer range, better repairs and better infantry to compensate for the lack of armour. Now it is no longer true but most perks remained. Axis have to risk closing in an keep diving, which puts them at a disadvantage. Su76 will never be chosen over a much superior su85. Unless as a stopgap measure in an already lost game or by much superior players to toy with.
2 Jun 2020, 15:32 PM
#77
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Plus you get the Elephant in teamgames.


Yes that is what I said. But it's not good design that a faction is forced to highly rely on one doctrinal unit (/two commanders) as it severely hurts diversity. Every faction should've had all the basic tools (flamethrowers, indirect, 60 range TD, etc.) available to them stock. With commanders either complementing their stock line up (with things like recon or camo), supplementing parts of it (G43 or other doctrinal weapon upgrades) or offering unique tools (like elite infantry), rather than filling holes.

Anyhow this is all a bit off-topic as it doesn't really have much to do with the SU-76.
2 Jun 2020, 16:14 PM
#78
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1739

as a 2v2 rank 1000 Ost player. double pak40 >> elefant. Elefant takes ages to shoot, why allies TD scared of it? something like ram + bomb = dead too.

Elefant is shit compare to ISU152, where ISU152 rear armor nerf yet?

If SU76 get buff, it is funny to see 2 of them flanking Elefant
2 Jun 2020, 16:23 PM
#79
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

as a 2v2 rank 1000 Ost player. double pak40 >> elefant. Elefant takes ages to shoot, why allies TD scared of it? something like ram + bomb = dead too.

Elefant is shit compare to ISU152, where ISU152 rear armor nerf yet?

If SU76 get buff, it is funny to see 2 of them flanking Elefant



sry, but what are you talking about?
elefant is shit compared to isu? excuse me?
target weakpoint alone fucks up the isu completely

why allied td s should be afraid? because elefant 2 shots them while having double their range + when equipped with spotting scope (or 222 with spotting) double their sight?

when you set up your elefant in a position to be rammed, its 100% on you



edit:

wait what? 2 su76 flanking an elefant? i didnt read this at first xD
youre trolling arent you?
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