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russian armor

Ostruppen cover mechanic is horrible design

22 May 2020, 01:06 AM
#1
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 298

Afaik Ostruppen get some insane accuracy bonus in cover, which makes them ok to use in cover, however their out of cover performance is beyond horrible. I think that this is a terrible design. I think they should be reworked so that their out of cover performance is still bad but acceptable and the cover bonus only gives them enough boost that they perform about as well as now. This would make them less of an ON/OFF type of unit. Increase base stat, lower bonus imho.

What are your thoughts?
22 May 2020, 01:15 AM
#2
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2904 | Subs: 1

Metattruppen OP
22 May 2020, 01:28 AM
#3
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I disagree. The fact that ostruppen are ment to be bad must be respected.
I understand that the on/off design due the cover bonus nature of ostruppen is "weird" but its a solid mechanic. You dont see ostruppen blobs A-moving and that is cool for me.
22 May 2020, 01:45 AM
#4
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 298

I disagree. The fact that ostruppen are ment to be bad must be respected.
I understand that the on/off design due the cover bonus nature of ostruppen is "weird" but its a solid mechanic. You dont see ostruppen blobs A-moving and that is cool for me.

It is the only unit in the game with this level of unintuitive bonus. They virtually don't exist outside of cover. What I propose is nothing that would let them A-move blob, it's just something that doesn't make them awkward to use. I'm sure 90% of casual players don't even know how ostruppen work because of how weird their design is and they use them wrong and it's not their fault.
MMX
22 May 2020, 03:50 AM
#5
avatar of MMX

Posts: 318


It is the only unit in the game with this level of unintuitive bonus. They virtually don't exist outside of cover. What I propose is nothing that would let them A-move blob, it's just something that doesn't make them awkward to use. I'm sure 90% of casual players don't even know how ostruppen work because of how weird their design is and they use them wrong and it's not their fault.


the cover bonus might be unintuitive at first, but works well enough to give the unit a distinct profile and use. why not simply update the toolip instead to better guide those casual players that don't know how to use osttruppen properly?
22 May 2020, 05:24 AM
#6
avatar of Partisanship

Posts: 236

Ostruppen is a pretty reliable mainline infantry as defensive strategies go. The cover mechanics was meant to reinforce the point that they're not great for assaulting. To give them better performance out of cover might only make their mechanics even more obscure for players, as well as betray the original perk of this unique unit.
22 May 2020, 07:48 AM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15714 | Subs: 7

Its a 200mp mainline infantry.
They are cheaper then partisans and fight incomparably better, while also scaling decently well into late game with their vet and upgrade.
You can count on osttruppen.
22 May 2020, 07:57 AM
#8
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 459

Osttruppen are not meant to really kill things. Mg 42 and mortar are there for it. Truppen simply screen and protect them.
22 May 2020, 08:04 AM
#9
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1377 | Subs: 3

Cover being essential for them makes them unique and fun to play.

Any weakness of Osttruppen, you should make your build around to compensate.
22 May 2020, 09:00 AM
#10
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1

The only changes they need is the LMG upgrade, "reserves" and "relief infatry" that are simply UP.

It should be replaced with a different upgrade making them more durable.
22 May 2020, 09:24 AM
#11
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 558

Remove 50%accuracy debuff and balance them 98k accuracy keep DPS not change,but LMG42 request T4,so when they pick up weapon will more powerful
22 May 2020, 10:06 AM
#12
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8836 | Subs: 1

As for design I like the Ostruppen design but I would rather see it on conscripts while having a variation of conscripts designed move to Penals.
22 May 2020, 10:11 AM
#14
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 139 | Subs: 2

I have been thinking something like this.

Take away the cover buff/debuff thing.

Make their offensive stats mirror cons.

Maybe allow them to merge.

Keep the price 200mp.

Take away faust.

Take away MG.
22 May 2020, 10:34 AM
#15
avatar of Muad'Dib

Posts: 363

The Osttruppen's offensive cover bonus allows them to be balanced at 200 MP, fits very well with the core game mechanics and their theme and is fairly well communicated via the sword-in-shield cover icon.
Non-issue IMO.
22 May 2020, 11:38 AM
#17
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 252 | Subs: 1

Prostruppen

When you must outspam the Allies, Ostruppen are your only real hope as Ostheer. That or Assgrens. You really should be keeping them behind cover anyway due to their 1.25 model size!!!
22 May 2020, 11:57 AM
#18
avatar of Sp33dSnake

Posts: 125

jump backJump back to quoted post22 May 2020, 07:48 AMKatitof
Its a 200mp mainline infantry.
They are cheaper then partisans and fight incomparably better, while also scaling decently well into late game with their vet and upgrade.
You can count on osttruppen.


Yes really, you can!

One of my main commanders is the Ostruppen doctrine.

Love the Pak/MG airdrop for 400 muni, and the artllery field officer with 3 lmg Ostruppens can bring a very nasty surprise for Allied mainline infantry.

The only thing I hate about the doctrine is the railway artillery. You know what I wish the doctrine had? The Flammenpanzer Hetzer 38.

That would make it an absolute badass doctrine.

I also wish the defensive doctrine could be reworked. The HMG bunkers suck for what they do at 320mp.
22 May 2020, 12:06 PM
#19
avatar of Sp33dSnake

Posts: 125

Prostruppen

When you must outspam the Allies, Ostruppen are your only real hope as Ostheer. That or Assgrens. You really should be keeping them behind cover anyway due to their 1.25 model size!!!


Don't forget about the bulletin that makes them 2% harder to hit.
22 May 2020, 13:44 PM
#20
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7362 | Subs: 1

They are perfectly designed, because compared to IS, they are an alternative option, not the ONLY option.

If you want a unit which is better as an assault unit or on the move, you use G43 Grens, 5man Grens, Assault Grenadiers or PG.
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