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[Feuersturm] MP40 and Hetzer

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20 May 2020, 16:07 PM
#61
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 122

What is Heztzer supposed to be so much better at that one would go for hezter over P4? Or even luchs? It's just KV8 with critical weaknesses.

-Not enough HP pool to frontally attack AT line
-No turret so can't run circles around AT like KV8
-only AI

Compared to P4:
-hetzer has less range so has to be microed more in order not to get snared
-No AT capability
-no rotating turret

Honestly what is this thing better at than luchs or P4?
- "you can like, force MGs off buildings and do damage against infantry, that you totally could no do with any other vehicle"

If you really want to make hetzer a competitive non-meme option you've got to implement just ONE of these changes:
-available with mechanized instead of schwer
-50% HP buff
-Serious dps buff
20 May 2020, 16:16 PM
#62
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 820

What is Heztzer supposed to be so much better at that one would go for hezter over P4? Or even luchs? It's just KV8 with critical weaknesses.

-Not enough HP pool to frontally attack AT line
-No turret so can't run circles around AT like KV8
-only AI

Compared to P4:
-hetzer has less range so has to be microed more in order not to get snared
-No AT capability
-no rotating turret

Honestly what is this thing better at than luchs or P4?
- "you can like, force MGs off buildings and do damage against infantry, that you totally could no do with any other vehicle"

If you really want to make hetzer a competitive non-meme option you've got to implement just ONE of these changes:
-available with mechanized instead of schwer
-50% HP buff
-Serious dps buff


Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper. Armor allows you to counter Bofors where a luch can't.

It fits in well with mech truck builds when you already have a puma and luch, I've seen some pros use this in a few games. Seen a lot of firesturm especially to punish UKF that have to build green cover everywhere, hetzer fits here well.

20 May 2020, 16:22 PM
#63
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 176

MP40 volks are currently superior to ass Tommies

Cheaper popcap, Faust, self healing vet and smoke at basically the same combat power

This would be a nerf to OKW... So sure.


Can someone run a test?
20 May 2020, 16:29 PM
#64
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8576 | Subs: 1

MP40 volks are currently superior to ass Tommies

Not really. They come later and have a teach cost.


Cheaper popcap, Faust, self healing vet and smoke at basically the same combat power

This would be a nerf to OKW... So sure.

Not really since by the time one get MP-40 volks one can have Ass IS with Thomson.
20 May 2020, 16:35 PM
#65
avatar of oootto92

Posts: 122



Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper. Armor allows you to counter Bofors where a luch can't.

It fits in well with mech truck builds when you already have a puma and luch, I've seen some pros use this in a few games. Seen a lot of firesturm especially to punish UKF that have to build green cover everywhere, hetzer fits here well.



So you are basically saying that I should have this commander in my roster in case my UKF opponent goes bofors and I can't wait two more minutes to get p4? The probability of this situation happening is negligible. Also if you can bully green cover spamming UKF with hetzer it means you can bully him with luchs.
20 May 2020, 16:41 PM
#66
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333

Make Hetzer come earlier or make it a late game flamer unit with better armor/Hp/Target size. Currently i see it as a medium with medium-late game timing. Worthless the effort because there is a lot of allied mediums that shut it off even before being deployed and a couple ATGs can bully it easily, too easily.

20 May 2020, 17:47 PM
#67
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766

Could bring Hetzer HP to 560 (Stug III/M10 Wolverine HP) and possibly lower the fuel cost some from 100(I think it is?) to high-end light tank levels, then put it in the primary HQ and require 2 trucks set up.
20 May 2020, 18:09 PM
#68
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 176

I think keep the same stat but making is a Call-in unit with 5 or 6 CP might help, a bit like Stug-E
20 May 2020, 19:51 PM
#69
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15475 | Subs: 7

thets no risk when you go kv8 kappa

At rank 2000+ where no one builds mines, uses fausts or ATGs or even med tanks, because they should be on field when KV-8 arrives?

Flame hetzer is a solid unit, it melts infantry and ATGs just fine, if you are afraid to lose it to vehicles, then maaaaaaaybe you should FUCKING PROTECT IT? OKW have T0 ATG for a reason you know?
20 May 2020, 22:30 PM
#70
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4105 | Subs: 1

I don't mind the hetz but I can see why people don't like it- to get the best out of it you will need to support it, which is markedly different than the other flame vehicles (wasp/FHT come soon enough they can eek by without it, kv-8/croc comes late enough it can have durability) but the hetz is in a n odd timing where AT is around but not so long that it should bounce shells.... However it's very commander grants the grey horde with smoke nades (assuming the okw player might decide to NOT pick the absolutely easy "improve DPS at all ranges" upgrade and instead chose to lower their long range DPS and trade their "none of the drawbacks of a molotov" molotov for a stick grenade to get access to smoke) smoke and hetz is great but I mean... You get flame rounds for the leig and throwers for sturms so... It's kinda overkill because it hits too soon or is too squishy. Idk
20 May 2020, 23:00 PM
#71
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 544

I hope IRstg rework be call in unit too
20 May 2020, 23:02 PM
#72
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15475 | Subs: 7

I hope IRstg rework be call in unit too

Why?
21 May 2020, 20:27 PM
#73
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Well since mp40 volks are hard countered by good mg play, in theory the Hetzer is there in turn to counter support weapons play. The problem is that 60range AT guns and enemy tanks can abuse it easily. If you add 5 more range it can do its job more safely, which helps it survive and be more viable.


That would put its range at 40, meaning it would be the same as a panzer 4.

That's... a little silly, IMO.
22 May 2020, 04:04 AM
#74
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 297



Hetzer can be rushed as it comes before flak truck, it's also cheaper.




???
22 May 2020, 07:45 AM
#75
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 448

MP40s are fine. If you run up against conscript or infantry section heavy builds, MP40 volks will serve you well.

The hetzer is not good. Its tech and cost means it's going to hit the field very slightly earlier then standard tank timing but its lack of versatility makes it unsuitable for a first medium. It might be more durable then the ostwind or centaur, but both of them have much larger field impact when they arrive, and that's only discussing AI specialist mediums. Most times people will opt for a generalist medium as their first tank and for good reason.

Personally I'd rather its durability and damage be nerfed, its cost reduced, then put into either tier 1 or 2. Perhaps 1 to make it easier to access the leig for the incendiary rounds.
22 May 2020, 07:55 AM
#76
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 634

One of the few reasons to pick this doctrine is the Opel truck. The rest not so much. Assault package is solid as the rocket
Incendiary rounds for Leigs should not occupy a whole commander slot, the ability is just not worth it. Replace it with the Artillery Officer or the Incendiary bombing run from Luftwaffe.
Hetzer needs to come earlier and should not require the 2nd tech phase.
22 May 2020, 11:57 AM
#77
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2811

Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.

Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?
22 May 2020, 13:19 PM
#78
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 634

Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.

Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?


I would support this, at least it's one option to make BGHQ more attractive.
22 May 2020, 16:22 PM
#79
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

Hetzer would be OP at LV timing.

Perhaps nerfing it and putting it in BGHQ would be a good change. Less fuel cost but also less HP or less mobility?

hanother 251?
22 May 2020, 16:45 PM
#80
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 297

~400hp, target size +2 fuel cost to 80 available from mechanized
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