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[Feuersturm] MP40 and Hetzer

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19 May 2020, 22:25 PM
#41
avatar of Stein Grenadier

Posts: 69

Hetzer not exactly too vulnerable to AT fire. Already has 15 target size, 3rd smallest vehicle, after the goliath and kubelwagen. Translates to being 12.5-20% harder to hit by default compared to, say, a generic medium tank at 20 target size.

A vanilla tank firing at max range only has 2.5% accuracy, multiply by 20, you get 50% chance to hit, with only 15, it's a mere 37.5% chance.

TD and atgs have 4% far accuracy, so the chances to hit, compared to a medium tank, is 80% vs 60%. Against non dedicated TDs or ATGs, there's also another RNG roll for armor pen, since it has as much armor as an ostheer P4 without skirts.

With this in mind, I would not at all suggest survivability buffs since conventional tanks will only hit half their shots at medium range and roughly only a third at max range.

I personally think MP40s volks are in a good place right now.
19 May 2020, 22:56 PM
#42
avatar of NoctyrneSAGA

Posts: 10

Would moving the Hetzer out of T4 be too drastic? Like stick it into T2 or T1 or in T0 with the requirement that either T1 or T2 are built?
19 May 2020, 23:03 PM
#43
avatar of Stein Grenadier

Posts: 69

Medium armor that's hard to hit and pen, with a timing slightly longer than a puma.

Imagine a valentine with none of the AT, but is harder to hit, has more HP and armor. Yeah, no. Keep it to T4.
20 May 2020, 14:39 PM
#44
avatar of Sp33dSnake

Posts: 68

Only thing I would change about the Doctrine (and OKW in general), is the assault package should have incendiary grenades, and default Volks should have access to stick grenades.

And I like the idea of Hetzer being availible prior to Panzer upgrade.

But thats just me.
20 May 2020, 14:42 PM
#45
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 175

I think we will conclude this topic in 3 or 4 days and open another one focus on Hetzer improvement.

If someone can give us exactly all the change the MP-40 upgrade do aside giving MP-40 and changing nades.

Plus feel free to make proposition upon the Hetzer
20 May 2020, 15:08 PM
#46
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8574 | Subs: 1

I think we will conclude this topic in 3 or 4 days and open another one focus on Hetzer improvement.

If someone can give us exactly all the change the MP-40 upgrade do aside giving MP-40 and changing nades.

Plus feel free to make proposition upon the Hetzer

Hezter could:
Become call in or built form HQ (suggestion applies to other specialized units as well) (could require 2 truck set up + 5 cp?)

Higher rear armor

slight increase in mobility

Remove DOT from autofire move it an ability (suggestion applies to other flame units as well)
20 May 2020, 15:09 PM
#47
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

or make it buildable without PA, or make it taht it can switch guns
20 May 2020, 15:15 PM
#48
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 175

or make it buildable without PA, or make it taht it can switch guns


I think switching gun isn't a codable option, need someone to tell us.
20 May 2020, 15:16 PM
#49
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

kv8 has it
20 May 2020, 15:20 PM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8574 | Subs: 1



I think switching gun isn't a codable option, need someone to tell us.

There is no animation for an AT gun and it is not realistic since Flame Hezter did not have a gun.

KV-8 had a gun.
20 May 2020, 15:24 PM
#51
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

idk i just think flame hetzer will be always useless
20 May 2020, 15:31 PM
#52
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2810

Hetzer would probably be perfectly fine if it had 5 more range.
20 May 2020, 15:31 PM
#53
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

still when would you use it.... fuel as okw is already awful
20 May 2020, 15:34 PM
#54
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2810

Well since mp40 volks are hard countered by good mg play, in theory the Hetzer is there in turn to counter support weapons play. The problem is that 60range AT guns and enemy tanks can abuse it easily. If you add 5 more range it can do its job more safely, which helps it survive and be more viable.
20 May 2020, 15:35 PM
#55
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

but then you get t34ed m4ed or AECed
20 May 2020, 15:45 PM
#56
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2810

but then you get t34ed m4ed or AECed


Yes that’s the risk of picking specialist units over generalist ones,
20 May 2020, 15:46 PM
#57
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

thets no risk when you go kv8 kappa
20 May 2020, 15:53 PM
#58
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 820

MP40 volks are currently superior to ass Tommies

Cheaper popcap, Faust, self healing vet and smoke at basically the same combat power

This would be a nerf to OKW... So sure.
20 May 2020, 15:58 PM
#59
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 820

Keep in mind that the Hetzer has very good damage that is dramatically improved with veterancy. I think it should just arrive sooner on the battlefield. Current requirements mean it comes too late, and since mobile AT is likely required to support it at this stage, bringing its own costs, it usually would make more sense to go for the generalist PzIVJ.

As for MP-40 volks, I think making them a separate unit might be a good idea, with some veterancy allowing them to use their grenades more rapidly.


People underestimate how amazing the hetzer is with a bit of Vet. Just use it in combo with other units and it destroys
20 May 2020, 16:05 PM
#60
avatar of dk828315

Posts: 69



I think switching gun isn't a codable option, need someone to tell us.

IIRC, I played the "All Units" mod and it has a Hetzer with a normal AT cannon and upgradable flame gun.
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