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[Feuersturm] MP40 and Hetzer

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Should the MP40 Upgrade from the Feuerstrum be the same as the UKF Assault Package ?
Option Distribution Votes
39%
61%
Flame-hetzer needs...
Option Distribution Votes
42%
16%
11%
30%
Total votes: 148
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
19 May 2020, 09:36 AM
#1
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 100

The update on the Assault Package of the UKF seems to work pretty fine. Maybe we could ask for the same rework of the MP40 Upgrade for the volks in the Feuerstrum commander ( a call-in units rather than an upgrade)

Plus wanting to know what you think about the flame-hetzer (viability+timing).
19 May 2020, 09:57 AM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2629

I like mp40 volks as they are, they’re already very strong.

Hetzer should require just T3 without Panzer Authorization. I think the doctrine suffers from MG heavy play, so the hetzer in my view should be adjusted to be a TW counter.
19 May 2020, 10:00 AM
#3
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 202

Mp40 volks are fine.They deal good dmg+ they get a rec acc buff which is nothing to be scoffed at. Flame hetzer is also fine, it has higher armor less target size and bettet vet than an ostwind. Plus it is cheaper
19 May 2020, 10:00 AM
#4
avatar of A table

Posts: 182

Do you mean you want a seperate unit from volksgrenadiers instead of them getting an MP40(in the current version)?

I wouldn't mind it if the ISG incendiary barrage goes together with the sturmpioneer flamethrower(and then call it something along the line of ''additional incendiary weapons''). Then you'd have an empty slot for an volksgren assault squad call- in.
19 May 2020, 10:20 AM
#5
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 100

Well i'm not the best one to talk about this doctrine, but seperate units seems just easier to balance with veterancy and I saw people asking for it, that's why I put this poll.

That's why it happenned to this UKF counterpart,no?
19 May 2020, 10:33 AM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8274 | Subs: 1

Well i'm not the best one to talk about this doctrine, but seperate units seems just easier to balance with veterancy and I saw people asking for it, that's why I put this poll.

That's why it happenned to this UKF counterpart,no?

MP-40 VG becoming a separate unit would be improvement but I would rather have Mp-40 become stock and ST44 redesigned and doctrinal.
19 May 2020, 10:42 AM
#7
avatar of A table

Posts: 182

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:33 AMVipper

MP-40 VG becoming a separate unit would be improvement but I would rather have Mp-40 become stock and ST44 redesigned and doctrinal.


I really don't see how this would improve VG performance against allied infantry mid- to lategame. Please explain.
19 May 2020, 10:45 AM
#8
avatar of Raxzero

Posts: 41

OKW's medium timing generally leads to your opponent getting a medium sooner than you. As the consequence, you always need a PIV to keep up with it. The problem is, however, that even after you get a PIV, investing on a Hetzer doesn't seem viable because of its relatively high cost for a strictly AI-only vehicle. I suggest lowering the cost of the Hetzer to make it viable. Maybe then it'd be justified to invest into an AI-only vehicle in some cases. Because currently, there's basically no reason to get a Hetzer over PIV when PIV does both AI and AT duty very well.
19 May 2020, 10:47 AM
#9
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 100

I haven't mention any timing/stat improvement idea, feel free to make proposition
19 May 2020, 10:51 AM
#10
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 100

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:33 AMVipper

MP-40 VG becoming a separate unit would be improvement but I would rather have Mp-40 become stock and ST44 redesigned and doctrinal.


From my game experience, MP40 volks wasn't really good due to a units not design around CQC, but improving MP40 would have lead to a spammable units with faust. And improving Volks for MP40 would have affected standard volks.

That's why I thought that the need of a seperate unit,like UKF,comes from the same place.
19 May 2020, 11:17 AM
#11
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1268

Do they really need these MP 40s? I mean, OKW has a lot of tools for CQC. And making volks as OKWish Assault grens, probably, wasn't the right idea back in 2017.

About Flammenpanzer, it arrives very late, as well as OKW Ostwind, when enemy has AT guns or Mediums. Easier and more savier to wait and call Panzer IV instead.

I would also ask about 28-cm barrage, but it's out of the topic.
19 May 2020, 11:39 AM
#12
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 100

Do they really need these MP 40s? I mean, OKW has a lot of tools for CQC. And making volks as OKWish Assault grens, probably, wasn't the right idea back in 2017.

About Flammenpanzer, it arrives very late, as well as OKW Ostwind, when enemy has AT guns or Mediums. Easier and more savier to wait and call Panzer IV instead.

I would also ask about 28-cm barrage, but it's out of the topic.


I don't see that many tools for CQC. Just Sturm as a dedicated CQC unit.

28cm barrage?
19 May 2020, 11:47 AM
#14
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8274 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 10:42 AMA table


I really don't see how this would improve VG performance against allied infantry mid- to lategame. Please explain.

1) Currently one has to choose between upgrading with ST44 and MP-40 so they are currently "competing". Change would remove the upgrade would remove "competitions".

2) Timing, pricing, reinforcement cost, abilities, vet bonuses will become allot easier to balance on separate unit.
19 May 2020, 11:50 AM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8274 | Subs: 1



From my game experience, MP40 volks wasn't really good due to a units not design around CQC, but improving MP40 would have lead to a spammable units with faust. And improving Volks for MP40 would have affected standard volks.

That's why I thought that the need of a seperate unit,like UKF,comes from the same place.

I agree and have suggested the same thing in the past.

On the other hand from a design point of view MP-40 as stock upgrade for VG would be much better than the atrocity MP-44 are. One would have to choose how many VG would be left with K98 or upgraded and it would create more room for OKW doctrinal units.
19 May 2020, 12:05 PM
#19
avatar of SgtJonson

Posts: 72

The doctrine currently is my no.1 in big teamgames against brits.

But not because of the hetzer. What i do atm is trying to make it through emplacements and advancing brits with the incindiary barrage form leig.
That way i force TW to reposition and get the volks closer to the real fight. It works quite well.

I don´t really use the MP40 for that, even though i would love to use both grenades. The Mp40 is too situational sadly.

I also try to avoid spending fuel except for the quickest PzIV.
Would love to try the flame hetzer, but i´m already not using light tanks with this tactic so i would never spend even more fuel by going for that.
Don´t like having an even bigger gap until my vehicles arrive.

It´s very hard to use effectively in PvP due to it´s timing.

So, no Hetzer, no MP, no FlamePios, looks like i am using only half of the dictrine now :D
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