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russian armor

Close the pocket

18 May 2020, 15:07 PM
#21
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203


So what you see saying is you literally have to defend one of 2 spots and the ability will do nothing... But you don't want to so the ability punishes that....
The smallest amount of effort and toy won't lose 4 armies worth of units plain and simple. It's as counterable as can be. 250mp across 4 players isn't too much to ask...

No, what I'm saying is that setting off the ability in 4vs4 AT is very easy and not some genius 4D chess move like you seem to be arguing. It's literally 8 clicks between 4 players (as in 2 clicks per player) to set it off with the right commander combination, even with the caches on cutoffs and assuming the enemy perfectly figures out your strat and responds accordingly, the best you can do is cancel it early by capping the point back. Assuming of course that the enemy team knows whats going on in the first place, because you can try being extra sneaky and never show them storms etc. so they can only guess if they have CTP to worry about or not.

I'm not even arguing for the ability to be nerfed, I'm just giving instructions on how to cheese your enemy with it and how easy it is XD.

18 May 2020, 17:28 PM
#22
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 268

Everything here comes down to a l2p issue. The amount of work you have to put in there to make it work is beyond good and evil. In over 2500 hours of playtime i managed to make it work in 4v4 on time (vielsalm / stuka + killing a cache with storms + shrek) and killed 2 russians asap. It is realy satifing but the counter play is way stronger.

Surplus, if 4 people manage to work together to pull it off, investing a lot off munition without a 100 % of sucess; the enemy doesnt deserve to win in the first place.

Csp is a meme; nothing more nothing less.

Never saw it ingame beside me pulling it off.
18 May 2020, 18:31 PM
#23
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

How much dmg does the Stuka Dive bomb (not the one in the close the pocket commander) to a cache?

And if the Cache is destroyed, does it also neutralise the point?
18 May 2020, 18:33 PM
#24
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203

How much dmg does the Stuka Dive bomb (not the one in the close the pocket commander) to a cache?

And if the Cache is destroyed, does it also neutralise the point?

Stuka destroys the cache, and leaves the point as it was.
18 May 2020, 19:06 PM
#25
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

Stuka Dive bomb don't even One-shot caches, they remain with like 1/5 of their HP
18 May 2020, 19:13 PM
#26
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

How much dmg does the Stuka Dive bomb (not the one in the close the pocket commander) to a cache?

And if the Cache is destroyed, does it also neutralise the point?


Comes close to destroying it (like 4/5th HP), but you need Break Supply Line + Stuka Dive Bomb to kill a cache and neutralize a sector in the same go, the order doesn't matter as both can neutralize.
18 May 2020, 19:20 PM
#27
avatar of Musti

Posts: 203

Stuka Dive bomb don't even One-shot caches, they remain with like 1/5 of their HP

Stuka Dive bomb don't even One-shot caches, they remain with like 1/5 of their HP

Yup, sorry ma bad, Stuka strike by itself doesnt destroy the cache.
Probably shows how often I use Stuka on caches outside said combo XD
18 May 2020, 22:08 PM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 15:07 PMMusti

No, what I'm saying is that setting off the ability in 4vs4 AT is very easy and not some genius 4D chess move like you seem to be arguing. It's literally 8 clicks between 4 players (as in 2 clicks per player) to set it off with the right commander combination, even with the caches on cutoffs and assuming the enemy perfectly figures out your strat and responds accordingly, the best you can do is cancel it early by capping the point back. Assuming of course that the enemy team knows whats going on in the first place, because you can try being extra sneaky and never show them storms etc. so they can only guess if they have CTP to worry about or not.

I'm not even arguing for the ability to be nerfed, I'm just giving instructions on how to cheese your enemy with it and how easy it is XD.


So step 1 is have a 4 man pre-made and coordinate against another 4 players who are incapable of defending 2 points. This Def sounds like it needs looking into
18 May 2020, 22:44 PM
#29
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2098 | Subs: 2


So step 1 is have a 4 man pre-made and coordinate against another 4 players who are incapable of defending 2 points. This Def sounds like it needs looking into

I have used CTP with Randos plenty of times on Red Ball from the south. There are buildings near the NorthWest Cutoff, or stuka drop, or cap with tanks. And the NorthEast cutoff is easy to attack since that side is always contested from South.

The question is "How does it affect new players?" Not, is it hard to do. Is it worth alienating new players for a gimmicky meme?

A well designed game has these little games within a game ideas.
18 May 2020, 22:59 PM
#30
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

jump backJump back to quoted post18 May 2020, 22:44 PMRosbone

I have used CTP with Randos plenty of times on Red Ball from the south. There are buildings near the NorthWest Cutoff, or stuka drop, or cap with tanks. And the NorthEast cutoff is easy to attack since that side is always contested from South.

The question is "How does it affect new players?" Not, is it hard to do. Is it worth alienating new players for a gimmicky meme?

A well designed game has these little games within a game ideas.


I've had it used on me with randoms a couple of times on Red Ball. It's annoying as shit when your random team mates don't realize what is happening and don't take any steps to prevent it.
19 May 2020, 09:19 AM
#31
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

Well, if I remember correctly all prices, such coordinated strat require: (80+200)*2+200=760 mun for 1 Close the Pocket on 2 cut-off map.

I didn't count any reco needed for the Stuka Dive bomb either, which lead to a price higher than the supremacy ( and i'm sure dropping 3 supremacy is easier than 1 Close the Pocket for a similar price and results).

And if you're concern about the effect on the newbie. Just consider that it is a 12 CP skill. So if you get to this point, that mean they weren't that bad, and at least had time to play the game, which is better than getting crush by a random blob early on.

And as said before, there is plenty of tools to counter this ability, this is not the balance team matter to nerf an ability because lower rank can't play around with the tools given.
19 May 2020, 09:32 AM
#32
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


I didn't count any reco needed for the Stuka Dive bomb either, which lead to a price higher than the supremacy ( and i'm sure dropping 3 supremacy is easier than 1 Close the Pocket for a similar price and results).

Encirclement stuka doesn't require FoW.
19 May 2020, 09:38 AM
#33
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 09:32 AMKatitof

Encirclement stuka doesn't require FoW.


That's why I said Stuka Dive Bomb and not Encirclement bomb
19 May 2020, 09:39 AM
#34
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

If this ability is balanced can we add this to alies too? Just imagine all okw trucks start to disappear just because one dude click one button lol
ultimate tactic ony for pros pls no nerf it
19 May 2020, 09:51 AM
#35
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

If this ability is balanced can we add this to alies too? Just imagine all okw trucks start to disappear just because one dude click one button lol
ultimate tactic ony for pros pls no nerf it


Allied abilities that could wipe anything have been purposely nerfed so it wouldn't happen again.

Again I can't help but compare this topic and people arguments with the RAM-IL2's various topics. It is fine and only skill when you manage to pull out a CTP but OP and no skill needed when its a RAM-IL2 combo.
19 May 2020, 09:52 AM
#36
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

Well, if I remember correctly all prices, such coordinated strat require: (80+200)*2+200=760 mun for 1 Close the Pocket on 2 cut-off map.

Then tactical nuke for 800 muni will be balanced too
Now u get it ?
19 May 2020, 10:01 AM
#37
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1220

jump backJump back to quoted post19 May 2020, 09:51 AMEsxile


Allied abilities that could wipe anything have been purposely nerfed so it wouldn't happen again.

Again I can't help but compare this topic and people arguments with the RAM-IL2's various topics. It is fine and only skill when you manage to pull out a CTP but OP and no skill needed when its a RAM-IL2 combo.

They are both cancerus but ram and ił2 combo wipe only one unit not whole army
19 May 2020, 10:22 AM
#38
avatar of meomup86

Posts: 6

this ability is very fun, plz make it more OP and let allies fan bois cry :>
19 May 2020, 10:22 AM
#39
avatar of Darkpiatre

Posts: 282


Then tactical nuke for 800 muni will be balanced too
Now u get it ?


Close The Pocket is a tactical nuke that doesn't have any counter? Or it is just an ability with requirement easy to counter? Now u get it?
19 May 2020, 10:35 AM
#40
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

CTP is one of the few abilities (together with stuff like Combined Arms) that are actually well designed in the sense that they can be really powerful but have a set of requirements in order to be activated. Much better than all the click-and-forget abilities like airplane strafes.

It's quite easy to prevent CTP by building caches and even if the enemy pulls it off it's quite easy to avoid it by quickly retreating your army (targeting is slow so nothing or barely anything will get hit) and take the cut-off back as soon as possible. I'd say the only real problem is that many players simply don't know how the ability works or what it does and don't recognize it when it's being used, but there's not much that can be done about that.
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