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My last personal wishlist for teamgame adjustments

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8 May 2020, 15:41 PM
#61
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1



A 70 range unit should never be able to spot for itself, no matter the circumstances.

Then you should also be asking to removed trucking from ISU-152.

As I have posted in thread I have little problem with removing the ability from Elephnat but the ability has already been nerfed too much and if it removed from Elefant it should be buffed.

Currently the tank commander upgrade both UKF and OKW imo is superior when it comes to tanks.


Also, an elefant often "waits" for targets. Yes, if it rotates you lose the sight bonus but its not hard to manually rotate onto the enemy tank completely once you spotted it for a second


Even if you rotate manually the sight does not comes immediately so the benefit is not that great and it much better to have another units spotting for elefant.
8 May 2020, 15:43 PM
#62
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1834 | Subs: 1


Tbh 60 range units shouldn't either. I'd like to see su85 focus sight looked at.


Focused Sight is good design. The mobility nerfs and time delays between activating and deactivating it mean that if you use it improperly then you'll get punished. If anything Elephant should have some kind of tradeoff sight ability though probably not mobility since it's already pretty slow.
8 May 2020, 16:00 PM
#63
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Focused Sight is good design. The mobility nerfs and time delays between activating and deactivating it mean that if you use it improperly then you'll get punished.


Not entirely. There's almost no way to punish it in a lot of lane maps where flanking it is next to impossible. It's a good concept but the risk barely applies in a lot of maps. It also makes the SU-85 exceptionally good against units like the Tiger II or Brummbar because they obviously can't flank it. I think on average the reward definitely outweighs the potential risk and that's where the ability arguably is too good. Not to mention it goes against the whole combined arms approach of the rest of the game.
8 May 2020, 16:02 PM
#64
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1



Focused Sight is good design. The mobility nerfs and time delays between activating and deactivating it mean that if you use it improperly then you'll get punished. If anything Elephant should have some kind of tradeoff sight ability though probably not mobility since it's already pretty slow.

Focus sight stacks with tracking and give the units one of longest sight bonus in game.
8 May 2020, 17:45 PM
#65
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 1216



Not entirely. There's almost no way to punish it in a lot of lane maps where flanking it is next to impossible. It's a good concept but the risk barely applies in a lot of maps. It also makes the SU-85 exceptionally good against units like the Tiger II or Brummbar because they obviously can't flank it. I think on average the reward definitely outweighs the potential risk and that's where the ability arguably is too good. Not to mention it goes against the whole combined arms approach of the rest of the game.


Isent it more viable to get some new maps for bigger modes that are not 4 or 3 mini 1v1's or 2v2's, instead of nerfing a ability wich is fine in 1v1 and 2v2?

Imo the focus sight is fine. Vision is directed in a cone no side vision, a speed decrease a cooldown to prevent abuse. It cant chase like this, it needs support to have vision outside of the cone. It also has no ai. The su85 needs support vs manned at. So a properly supported brum or kt has shrecks or at guns supporting them. Severaly hampering or even threatening a su85.

Just a though i have now. I would look to lessen the chance of penning at max range somewhat. Dont know the percentages but i believe its rather close to 95% on most axis heavy armour. Now focus sight and max range pen is what makes focus sight so good.
8 May 2020, 18:02 PM
#66
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 953

Ram + off map needs to go. Considering off maps are largely fine on their own the balance team really needs to look into ram. Losing heavy tanks to two clicks of a button is retarded and there is nothing that can be done about it. And no you can't reliably keep your tanks from being rammed even though rank 1000 Allied mains think so.


Yes.

Either the range needs to be decreased on ram, or there needs to be a a 'wind-up' time, or the stun needs to last less time, or it needs to be interruptible (taking damage cancels the ram, for example). Right now, even with absolutely perfect reaction time, there is a good chance that once the opponent clicks "ram", there is nothing the axis player can do, which means that the targeted vehicle is effectively destroyed.

Really: example

The Ele starts reversing before the T34 starts its ram. You can't faust the T34 because its at full HP, and once it does take damage (which allows the faust to snare), the T34 has already started the "ram" (which can't be snared). Once it does hit, the Ele starts moving instantly and still can't escape the off-map.

Basically, in that clip, for any chance of counter-play, the OST player needs to hit the T34 with AT and then also fire off a faust, all BEFORE the Ram starts. That window There's no opportunity for counter-play.

Land mattress dies in two tank or Pak shots

When the targeting on the LM got changed they should have reduced pack up time now it can be killed so quick. It's kind of lame right now


Yes, but every other rocket-arty is destroyed by a direct hit from on-map arty - the LM is not.

OUT OF SCOPE!

(I agree with most of the wishes btw)


If you know what the size of the 'scope' is, let us know. Its hard to make suggestions when there's no solid understanding of what can and can't be done.
8 May 2020, 18:09 PM
#67
avatar of Toyvendor

Posts: 40 | Subs: 1

Really like all the suggestions of the OP, escpecially ISU 152 nerfs. That unit is cancer.
8 May 2020, 18:29 PM
#68
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5419 | Subs: 28



If you know what the size of the 'scope' is, let us know. Its hard to make suggestions when there's no solid understanding of what can and can't be done.


Not atm, we self are not sure. It all belongs to relic.

Only known fact is, there will be a hotfix coming again and some changes to brit again.

But don't ask me when^^.
8 May 2020, 18:41 PM
#69
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 953

Not atm, we self are not sure. It all belongs to relic.

Only known fact is, there will be a hotfix coming again and some changes to brit again.

But don't ask me when^^.


That's understandable, and thanks for letting us know.

However, with updates/patches in the future (for example, a summer/fall patch?), knowing the 'scope' beforehand would really help ease communication between the general community, the balance team and Relic. Communication surrounding the last patch was, imo, not that great; and it seems to have caused a lot of frustration in the community (which I think everyone wants to avoid).

Even a relatively small announcement (before the patch started testing) similar to this would go a long way:

"We're working on a new patch, with the goal of addressing (Unit Types). We're not looking to redesign these units entirely, so we're limiting changes to moderate buffs and nerf. This patch also won't be addressing doctrines.
8 May 2020, 18:49 PM
#70
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 316

Ram + off map needs to go. Considering off maps are largely fine on their own the balance team really needs to look into ram. Losing heavy tanks to two clicks of a button is retarded and there is nothing that can be done about it. And no you can't reliably keep your tanks from being rammed even though rank 1000 Allied mains think so.

There actually is a pretty underused ability in OST doctrine with 110MU JU87 strafe. It is basically the same as the IL2 rocket strafe but you can use your pak40 vet1 ability to stun instead of sacrificing your medium tank for ramming. Nobody really uses it to cheese vs allied heavies because of ATG, Panthers, Tigers, JT and Elefant doing their job, but it is there and is no weaker combo than ram+IL2.

If ram+IL2 combo is nerfed, then the game will turn into heavy tank/Elefant meta even more than it is now, with possibly allies swapping to Brits even more as tulips are actually very good against heavies and super heavies while churchills or comets can actually absorb and deal damage respectively.

Really: example

This Elefant drove right into the bombing though..
8 May 2020, 19:31 PM
#71
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1834 | Subs: 1



Not entirely. There's almost no way to punish it in a lot of lane maps where flanking it is next to impossible. It's a good concept but the risk barely applies in a lot of maps. It also makes the SU-85 exceptionally good against units like the Tiger II or Brummbar because they obviously can't flank it. I think on average the reward definitely outweighs the potential risk and that's where the ability arguably is too good. Not to mention it goes against the whole combined arms approach of the rest of the game.


Fair enough but it sounds like more of a map design issue than a unit design one. Additionally the SU-85 is more or less SU's sole stock option to deal with Brumbar and Tiger II so I suppose the question is whether or not focused sight makes it TOO good against those kinds of units it's supposed to counter. Personally I only find it good for trying to sneak in a killing blow on a retreating tank and even then you're stuck in focused sight mode for a bit and SU85 isn't good at chasing. I agree that camping with SU85 on lanes can be troublesome though but that's true for all TDs.
8 May 2020, 21:13 PM
#72
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 351

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 06:29 AMKoRneY


Nerf okw


If anything, it should improve survival vs tanks and artillery while maintaining the same killing power. Just higher MP cost for higher survival.
8 May 2020, 21:54 PM
#73
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 351

In regards to T-34 ram. You can counter it by not letting the T-34 get close. This includes setting mines at flank points, not moving your heavies too far up without support and using your AT gun stun to support your heavies.

T-34 ram is strong but it is also expensive. The resource swing of the combo can go huge in either way for both teams.

Also don't forget that T-34 ram can 'fail' since its technically a projectile with 200 penetration. Its easier to get a good stun by ramming the rear armour than it is the frontal armour so guard your rear armour well.
8 May 2020, 22:36 PM
#74
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 351



Not atm, we self are not sure. It all belongs to relic.

Only known fact is, there will be a hotfix coming again and some changes to brit again.

But don't ask me when^^.


Don't you dare touch my Infantry Sections

https://imgur.com/undefined
8 May 2020, 22:44 PM
#75
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1896

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 06:41 AMVipper

Are you sure that it has a target size of 20 when it crewed? Because most support weapons have a target size 20 when they are not crewed.


I don't know whether opposing units like tanks or TD's target the crew or the weapon. I do know it's not easy to use and easy to wipe. The nominal range is 120, but it is so bad at that range that you aren't going to wipe anything. It takes forever to fire so it gives the other side plenty of time to attack it. The PWerfer and Calliope also have to get close but at least they fire quickly and can retreat quickly.

If I was going to rank it, I'd rank it last among the rocket arty.
8 May 2020, 22:53 PM
#76
avatar of Applejack

Posts: 351

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 22:44 PMGrumpy


I don't know whether opposing units like tanks or TD's target the crew or the weapon. I do know it's not easy to use and easy to wipe. The nominal range is 120, but it is so bad at that range that you aren't going to wipe anything. It takes forever to fire so it gives the other side plenty of time to attack it. The PWerfer and Calliope also have to get close but at least they fire quickly and can retreat quickly.

If I was going to rank it, I'd rank it last among the rocket arty.


Gonna have to agree with this one.

Every rocket arty seems to have a quirk with them that makes unique. What was not taken into account is all other rocket artillery is mobile except for the land mattress. By costing the same as other rocket arty but not being mobile makes it a huge liability. Setup time, teardown time and slow speed absolutely destroy the effectiveness of the land mattress and unlike other rocket arty, it is very vulnerable to call-ins despite costing the same.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the current state is something like this:

Werfer
- Most accurate, fast aim time and has suppression (because it is turreted). Its a speedy boy too.

Calliope
- High HP compared to other rocket arty, somewhat larger bursts compared to katy.

Katyusha
- Longest barrage duration. Small barrages spread over a duration.

Land Mattress
- High volume of fire and incendiary rocket option.


- - - - -

Also to add to OP.

British MGs desperately need an active ability. All other MGs have one except for the Vickers. Give it sustained fire just like the maxim maybe.
8 May 2020, 23:02 PM
#77
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2648 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 22:44 PMGrumpy


I don't know whether opposing units like tanks or TD's target the crew or the weapon.


They target the weapon :s

Normal guns 2-shot it, ele and JT oneshot the landmattress. Means it's dead as fck if the enemy is in range... which -as I said- is not uncommon with how extremely slow this thing reacts and with the super long barrage duration
8 May 2020, 23:21 PM
#78
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 22:44 PMGrumpy


I don't know whether opposing units like tanks or TD's target the crew or the weapon. I do know it's not easy to use and easy to wipe. The nominal range is 120, but it is so bad at that range that you aren't going to wipe anything. It takes forever to fire so it gives the other side plenty of time to attack it. The PWerfer and Calliope also have to get close but at least they fire quickly and can retreat quickly.

If I was going to rank it, I'd rank it last among the rocket arty.

If you got the number from cruzz's spread sheet that is the size when it does not have a crew.

It probably uses a different size when it has a crew.
8 May 2020, 23:49 PM
#79
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5277



Fair enough but it sounds like more of a map design issue than a unit design one. Additionally the SU-85 is more or less SU's sole stock option to deal with Brumbar and Tiger II so I suppose the question is whether or not focused sight makes it TOO good against those kinds of units it's supposed to counter. Personally I only find it good for trying to sneak in a killing blow on a retreating tank and even then you're stuck in focused sight mode for a bit and SU85 isn't good at chasing. I agree that camping with SU85 on lanes can be troublesome though but that's true for all TDs.

It was a fine ability when the su85 was less reliable but now it makes a very powerful su85 even more powerful. High impact units shouldn't self spot. Way back snipers used to self spot and it was changed because it makes kiting too easy. I agree the ability is well designed, it's just I'll suited for the unit it's on. Besides one thing the soviet do not lack is recon.
9 May 2020, 00:22 AM
#80
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Agree on most ideas.
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