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russian armor

Isn´t maxim aoe suppression

8 May 2020, 14:45 PM
#22
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4079 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 14:28 PMVipper

So in your opinion maxim vet 0 is trash, maxim vet 1 and above is fine. Is that correct?

That's correct. I feel like needing the pop the ability for suppression feels right on the Maxim. No need to keep the ability to do its job behind vet (off topic but I feel this was part of the issue with the old Jackson as well)
8 May 2020, 21:00 PM
#23
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2223 | Subs: 4

Alright, I'll lay it all out on the maxim.

In the context of the Soviet army it is very good. Only for the Soviets when it doesn't have vet1. It requires a 6 man crew and conscript merge to reach its full potential. Any other army stealing this would be at a huge disadvantage. This is somewhat of an extra benefit to the maxim from the Soviet perspective.

If you don't have cons I wouldn't bother to get it, but if you do it is a fantastic field presence. That vet1 ability is incredibly powerful, it really ties the unit together. The maxim has finally become balanced and relevant in my eyes. It's not a meme 1v1 mg you walk around the map to attack move squads. It plays differently to the MG-42 and requires interesting new strategies to use properly, I applaud the balance team for giving this unit real depth. If there's an mg to complain about it's the vickers.

Also if you weren't aware of just how dank this ability is:


Only 15 munitions makes this spammable as hell. It pays for itself twice over just by forcing a nade from your opponent. The cooldown and burst length changes result in more than double the damage, coming almost as close in damage output as the AP round MG-42 but with much more suppression. If there's some aids cancer ober blob coming frontally into your mg, I'd want a maxim most of all.
8 May 2020, 21:09 PM
#24
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2309

Wow, tobis i really like your perspective. I agree that maxims are more a common sight nowdays and i like the new design. I wasnt able to describe why until i read your description of it. Thanks.

With regards T0 vs T1 maxim i think its at least fair that you need to invest some effort to make maxim shine. I dont think T0 sustained fire should be available. As long as Conscripts can help maxims with merge i think there is no need to move its vet to Vet0
8 May 2020, 21:40 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8520 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 21:00 PMTobis
Alright, I'll lay it all out on the maxim.

...

Thank for the reply and clarification, in your opinion the maxim is not trash even at the vet 0 without sustain fire ability ability.

Once more a certain user got what Tobis posted completely wrong.
8 May 2020, 21:49 PM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 21:00 PMTobis
Any other army stealing this would be at a huge disadvantage. This is somewhat of an extra benefit to the maxim from the Soviet perspective.


I don't think the fact that it's not good enough to steal without 6 man and merge should ever be considered a benefit. Especially seeing as OKW can just salvage it anyway

Sustained fire at vet 0 should be the case. Make the ability slightly more expensive if needed, but the Maxim shouldn't need vet 1 and merging cons just to do it's only job

Or, can we all at least stop pretending the mg42 is worth 260 manpower? In no universe should it be the same price as Maxim and cheaper than .50 cal, which both require fuel to unlock
8 May 2020, 21:59 PM
#27
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 1050

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 21:40 PMVipper

Thank for the reply and clarification, in your opinion the maxim is not trash even at the vet 0 without sustain fire ability ability.

Once more a certain user got completely wrong.

I see where this is going,
next thread - maxim vet 1 ability should be reworked.
8 May 2020, 23:00 PM
#28
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 189

6 man weapon teams .. gg
8 May 2020, 23:18 PM
#29
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8520 | Subs: 1


I see where this is going,
next thread - maxim vet 1 ability should be reworked.

I would suggest that you stop imagining things and stick to what has been actually posted.

I have not posted my opinion about the maxim in this thread and I do not see why some people want to guess what my opinion is.
8 May 2020, 23:21 PM
#30
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2309



I don't think the fact that it's not good enough to steal without 6 man and merge should ever be considered a benefit. Especially seeing as OKW can just salvage it anyway

So if SU steals a raketen/MG42 it should have 5/4 man crew?
Cmon dont be such a fool.

SU perks makes maxims competitive, thats what he said. That also makes team weapon stealing OP.
If your complaint is that OKW can salvage, then you should remove both perks, if you want a nonbiased perspective.

Added:

Sustained fire at vet 0 should be the case. Make the ability slightly more expensive if needed, but the Maxim shouldn't need vet 1 and merging cons just to do it's only job

Why so? What about merge. Why should gren rely on MG42 but maxim dont rely on conscript merge? Maxims In early game is more than effective so the myth of "it cant do its job" its false.
Want lategame MG? Steal one, or get maxims in cover, at least you wont lose it. Done.


Or, can we all at least stop pretending the mg42 is worth 260 manpower? In no universe should it be the same price as Maxim and cheaper than .50 cal, which both require fuel to unlock

No one pretends that, everyone understand what is assimetrycal balance maybe?
If you dont like it just say it.
8 May 2020, 23:58 PM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4079 | Subs: 1

Great take by Tobis.
My perspective is that the 6 man crew should be a bonus paid for in faction somehow, not a requirement to make a unit work.
For me, the goal to a well balanced weapon is that no matter who I am playing, I can make good use of it. I'd sooner have a higher purchase cost (to prevent spam) and a solid vet 0 Mg than have an Mg that of the enemy decrews they will destroy rather than recrew themselves (thus denying me the chance to take it back)

To reiterate, the Maxim should be usable without a 6 man crew. For me that's the baseline.
9 May 2020, 00:08 AM
#32
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2757

jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 21:00 PMTobis
Any other army stealing this would be at a huge disadvantage.


Not at all, it's far better than not having anything. I always steal it when I get the chance to.


jump backJump back to quoted post8 May 2020, 21:40 PMVipper
Once more a certain user got it completely wrong.


Tobis isn't luvnest, don't hide behind individual opinions.


No need to keep the ability to do its job behind vet


Tbh I agree, but it also needs an economy adjustment if the ability is to be vet 0.

Sustained fire to vet 0, remove the reload, decrease accuracy by 10%.

Maxim build time increased by 20 seconds and cost to 300.

T2 build time increased by 10 seconds.

Maxim pack up speed increased by 10% (to reduce deathloop) and set up speed decreased by 10% to compensate. I would also give the maxim a bit more burst duration outside of the sustained fire ability, around 10%.
9 May 2020, 00:25 AM
#33
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1


So if SU steals a raketen/MG42 it should have 5/4 man crew?
Cmon dont be such a fool.

That's not what I said


SU perks makes maxims competitive, thats what he said. That also makes team weapon stealing OP.
If your complaint is that OKW can salvage, then you should remove both perks, if you want a nonbiased perspective.

YOU literally said that team weapon salvaging is OP like 2 months ago:

Yeah TW removal is the issue and there is no reason for those to be scavenged. Tank wreks and maybe ATG and similar wreks are the intentioned target.
......

Why so? What about merge. Why should gren rely on MG42 but maxim dont rely on conscript merge? Maxims In early game is more than effective so the myth of "it cant do its job" its false.
Want lategame MG? Steal one, or get maxims in cover, at least you wont lose it. Done.

Every single factions' units rely on other units... That's how the game works. No one is saying the Maxim shouldn't rely on conscripts, just not as much as it does currently


No one pretends that, everyone understand what is assimetrycal balance maybe?
If you dont like it just say it.

Again, not what I said. The mg42 and Maxim will still have lots of assymetry even if you increase the 42s price
9 May 2020, 00:43 AM
#34
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2223 | Subs: 4


To reiterate, the Maxim should be usable without a 6 man crew. For me that's the baseline.

It is totally usable. Usable, not great. I would rather have a 4 man maxim than a vickers. It is still worth stealing the maxim obviously, it's just mediocre instead of being great. Soviets are paying the 260 manpower for the maxim to get a great team weapon. Enemies steal it for free and get a mediocre team weapon. Changes to performance are unnecessary.

Also to be fair, it's a gun from the 1880s being compared to weapons from the 1930s.
9 May 2020, 00:47 AM
#35
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2757

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2020, 00:43 AMTobis
Also to be fair, it's a gun from the 1880s being compared to weapons from the 1930s.


MG42 still the best MG today as the MG3 version. If not the best then one of the best and still in active service everywhere.
9 May 2020, 00:48 AM
#36
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post9 May 2020, 00:43 AMTobis

Also to be fair, it's a gun from the 1880s being compared to weapons from the 1930s.


Lol I don't think anybody is forgetting how arcane the Maxim is compared to mg42. That isn't supposed to have much impact on the games balance anyway
9 May 2020, 03:59 AM
#40
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

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