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COH2.ORG » Forums » Parlor Room » COH2 Central » COH2 Balance » Why on earth do sections need 50% moving acc? Seriously.

Why on earth do sections need 50% moving acc? Seriously.

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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 21:58 PM
#82
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:52 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

Yeah, and if u do the math, 5secs for 10 munis, oorah should cost 20munis. And I've seen cons oorah backwards to safety to counter agren sprint. Con DPS curve is far more generous than agrens.


So they spent 15 munitions to counter your 10 muni. Your "math" is completely ignoring the fact that sprint is more valuable to a cqc squad than one with bolt actions....

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:52 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

Stock ability is more cost effective than the doctrinal ability? Nothing to see here. Just a typical day for Ostheer.


Only in your crazy world
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Mr Carmine
28 Apr 2020, 21:58 PM
#83
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 19:44 PMSuperHansFan


And as the only allied faction with four man squads what options do brits have vs Wehr sniper and ost doctrinal inf?

No doubt bolster is effective, but its pretty much mandatory vs Wehr sniper play to prevent early retreats. We saw how strong 5man gren into sniper was last tournament as Tommy spam was punished.

Now imagine how quick those games would have finished in Ost wins with four man squads. It's all good saying brits can rely on weapon upgrades that can up their DPS instead, but vs sniper play you need staying power in engagements and Brens can't help you there. Any rework with bolster with changing Tommy power level needs to have them at five man for this reason. We already had a year of Ostheer sniper dominance vs Brits when bolster was more expensive and fielded later. But it was changed to come earlier to give a chance vs sniper cheese.


The issue with the ost sniper is its geared for 6 men squads. And bolster seems to come much to soon as sections do to well now.

The recon section from coh 1 with 40 or 60 ammo sniper shot to give a counter snipe potential. I woudnt make it a 100% hit chance though.
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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 21:59 PM
#84
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:58 PMSkysTheLimit


So they spent 15 munitions to counter your 10 muni. Your "math" is completely ignoring the fact that sprint is more valuable to a cqc squad than one with bolt actions....



Only in your crazy world


It's useful in lobbing nades, but cons have at nades and molotovs so its equally useful. Agrens have a small window to take advantage of its DPS curve with sprint.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 22:02 PM
#85
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:56 PMKatitof

Ah, I see you haven't played Soviets last couple of years!
At the current state, we're lucky merge and ram do not cost muni.


And how many times do u see ram being used? And how many times do u see players using merge? SU has been so good recently that most players don't bother with their abilities. I'd love to have 10 muni flares that cons get as well for Ost. Almost no SU players use them.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 22:03 PM
#86
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Speaking of muni spamming, Zis barrage for 35 is ridiculously cheap for what it does. Each damn shell is like a bundle grenade but there's no timer, little warning and at gun barrages from afar which won't risk it's crew. The scatter is very tight as well. Damn thing regularly wipes support weapons like nobody's business due to lack of warning.

It used to cost 45 FOR GOOD REASON.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 22:03 PM
#87
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:59 PMIncendiaryRounds:)


It's useful in lobbing nades, but cons have at nades and molotovs so its equally useful. Agrens have a small window to take advantage of its DPS curve with sprint.


Again, oorah is already cheaper. Not to mention mollys and at nades require their own fuel to unlock, so your argument about cost effectiveness is nonsense

How many people do you need to tell you 5 muni sprint is a terrible idea?

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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 22:06 PM
#88
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:03 PMSkysTheLimit


Again, oorah is already cheaper. Not to mention mollys and at nades require their own fuel to unlock, so your argument about cost effectiveness is nonsense

How many people do you need to tell you 5 muni sprint is a terrible idea?



I was just suggesting to made agrens or Ost units in general more in line with the cost efficiency of other factions. Because Sander said ass tommies have better DPS than agrens despite costing the same but agrens mAkE uP fOr iT wItH tHeIr AbiLitIEs. So Ost players have to micro harder than the other factions for no extra reward.

So I was saying if agrens need to rely on abilities to win an engagement at least make em a bit more affordable.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 22:09 PM
#89
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:06 PMIncendiaryRounds:)

So Ost players have to micro harder than the other factions for no extra reward.


Yeah hitting that F hotkey is so fucking difficult. Lawl
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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 22:11 PM
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:09 PMSkysTheLimit


Yeah hitting that F hotkey is so fucking difficult. Lawl


Seriously, then why don't we make ass tommies use the F key or Cav rifles, or ass engies, etc.


iT's jUsT aN F kEy, wHat'S wRonG?
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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 22:19 PM
#91
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:11 PMIncendiaryRounds:)


Seriously, then why don't we make ass tommies use the F key or Cav rifles, or ass engies, etc.


iT's jUsT aN F kEy, wHat'S wRonG?


You want Cav rifles to have sprint? A squad that has an AT satchel?

You want ass engies to have sprint? With a flamethrower also available?

You are an absolute clownshow lol

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IncendiaryRounds:)
28 Apr 2020, 22:23 PM
#92
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:19 PMSkysTheLimit


You want Cav rifles to have sprint? A squad that has an AT satchel?

You want ass engies to have sprint? With a flamethrower also available

You are an absolute clownshow lol



Nope, I meant to nerf them to the point where they'll lose to grens when charging from max range and then giving them sprint so now they'll be entirely dependant on sprinting or ambushing to win an engagement. Currently agrens can't afford to charge rifles or sections despite costing the same so they're entirely dependant on abilities. The other CQC infantry can actually afford to charge grens and win.
"I wish THQ was still alive and made CoH2. Ostheer for life."

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Katitof
28 Apr 2020, 22:25 PM
#93
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:11 PMIncendiaryRounds:)


Seriously, then why don't we make ass tommies use the F key or Cav rifles, or ass engies, etc.


iT's jUsT aN F kEy, wHat'S wRonG?

Probably for the same reason T34 or shermans can't use blitz.

Be a good boy and figure this one out yourself.
jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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thedarkarmadillo
28 Apr 2020, 22:25 PM
#94
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I can't think of a single CQB squad that costs the same as grens. I guess partisans are kinda close but not really...
#stalinwept
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SkysTheLimit
28 Apr 2020, 22:26 PM
#95
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:23 PMIncendiaryRounds:)


Nope, I meant to nerf them to the point where they'll lose to grens when charging from max range and then giving them sprint so now they'll be entirely dependant on sprinting or ambushing to win an engagement. Currently agrens can't afford to charge rifles or sections despite costing the same so they're entirely dependant on abilities. The other CQC infantry can actually afford to charge grens and win.


So you want to make all the factions the same? Lets give allies Tiger Aces and Panthers?

Let's make the maxim just as strong as MG42! Maxims only advantage is faster re-positioning, aka it requires more micro. Do you see the problem yet?
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Mr Carmine
28 Apr 2020, 22:34 PM
#96
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:03 PMIncendiaryRounds:)
Speaking of muni spamming, Zis barrage for 35 is ridiculously cheap for what it does. Each damn shell is like a bundle grenade but there's no timer, little warning and at gun barrages from afar which won't risk it's crew. The scatter is very tight as well. Damn thing regularly wipes support weapons like nobody's business due to lack of warning.

It used to cost 45 FOR GOOD REASON.


It hardy wipes team weapons at longe range as often as you claim. Now with its heavy cover modifier set to 0.5 it will do that less often.

Soviets do use a lot more muni on upgrades then ever before. Conscripts are used far more often then before and they eat muni and micro to preform. So i can understand why they made it cheaper.

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Musti
28 Apr 2020, 22:50 PM
#97
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 19:43 PMKatitof

Less then 2,4 for 4 man tommy squad at range 14(easiest calculation).
For contrast, tommies at that range -IN- cover have 16 DPS.
So it moves their DPS from less then 5 to less then 8 (they have less DPS out of cover and I couldn't care enough to fetch the exact values).

So all of this screaming is about 3 dps difference on a tommy squad? Assuming they move IN cover?
Fair enough I didn't expect any less XD
You can't spell "Power Creep" without REEEEE.
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Katitof
28 Apr 2020, 23:08 PM
#98
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 22:50 PMMusti

So all of this screaming is about 3 dps difference on a tommy squad? Assuming they move IN cover?
Fair enough I didn't expect any less XD

My fav part of this discussion is people using % values in most creative ways they can, because it makes the actual numbers seem big, exaggerating the values, when in fact its very small(for comparison, at exact same distance, conscripts on the move have 6,9 DPS).

I call it snek maneuver.

Couple that with the fact that you don't move and shoot at any other units then retreating ones(reason to close in with tommies does not exist) and you'll have half of that DPS.

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2015, 11:09 AM$nuffy
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
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LoopDloop
29 Apr 2020, 00:00 AM
#99
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Sections shouldn't have that good moving DPS, and now they're OP again, but brits are still a weird crutchy gimmicky faction. Apparently we have learned nothing about faction balancing and won't actually fix any of the real problems with brits and instead are just giving them more OP line infantry.
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FelixTHM
29 Apr 2020, 02:54 AM
#100
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jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2020, 21:58 PMSkysTheLimit


So they spent 15 munitions to counter your 10 muni. Your "math" is completely ignoring the fact that sprint is more valuable to a cqc squad than one with bolt actions....



Only in your crazy world




Not agreeing with 100% but sprinting Cons are still much more valuable since they have snares.

That's what made Vet 5 PFusiliers such bullshit last patch. Increased snare range and passive sprint...WTF
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