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25 Apr 2020, 18:07 PM
#21
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 87


it doesnt matter if its a call in or a built unit, anything from a 222 up pretty well will punish you for crewing a weapon with zero nearby support. thats the role of these units. if you have AT and a snare (that one is most important) the unit will be drastically less effective and exploiting you.
without a replay i cant give more direct advice but if you have nothing to stop a LV from cruising up to your team weapons and plinking away at them they will cruise up to your team weapons and plink away at them. its not a design issue, its not a balance issue, its called how the game works.


That is not the point. I am well aware, that i need snare atgs or units of some sort to cover up my retreat.

The point in these games were, that the greyhound was called in the moment i got the atg, solely with the purpose of denying that.


Can we agree, that a situation explained above, is not a desireable game design?
25 Apr 2020, 18:10 PM
#22
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15467 | Subs: 7



That is not the point. I am well aware, that i need snare atgs or units of some sort to cover up my retreat.

The point in these games were, that the greyhound was called in the moment i got the atg, solely with the purpose of denying that.


Can we agree, that a situation explained above, is not a desireable game design?

Boy, wait until you find out about infiltration troops.
25 Apr 2020, 18:35 PM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8566 | Subs: 1



That is not the point. I am well aware, that i need snare atgs or units of some sort to cover up my retreat.

The point in these games were, that the greyhound was called in the moment i got the atg, solely with the purpose of denying that.


Can we agree, that a situation explained above, is not a desireable game design?

Yes there is little reason for instant vehicle production.
25 Apr 2020, 18:35 PM
#24
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2949

My complain is not about the powerlevel of the greyhound - the unit itself is balanced - but the fact, that after a close engagement, where i could have stolen 2 team weapons (which is hard enough with only 4 model-inf as OST), i get punished by a Panic-button-call in, which kills everything.

One could say, it was a misplay and i was too greedy. But it is just unrewarding. Imo, this kind of habit led to the cancer, that mobile defence was.

What?! i get chased by a t70? Better call in a Puma to ruin this tanks day.

I see many simmilarities here, even though a puma is more viable through the game. Nonetheless Panic button abilitys shouldnt have a place in this game


How is this similar to the greyhound? The only vehicle it counters is an un-upgraded halftrack and it's not like infantry spend a lot of time basediving.
25 Apr 2020, 18:48 PM
#25
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2020, 18:10 PMKatitof

Boy, wait until you find out about infiltration troops.


Every kind of infiltration troop got nerfed already. JLI, fallschirmjäger, sturmtruppen. All had assault rifles of some sort, when they were new.

25 Apr 2020, 18:52 PM
#26
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4101 | Subs: 1



That is not the point. I am well aware, that i need snare atgs or units of some sort to cover up my retreat.

The point in these games were, that the greyhound was called in the moment i got the atg, solely with the purpose of denying that.


Can we agree, that a situation explained above, is not a desireable game design?

I agree with the end result, simply not how you got there. Built or called in you would have lost your squads. The effect wasn't because of the call in, it was because the lack or support. Both axis faction's mainline squads and mainline replacements all have snares which is more than enough to scare a LV from making a dive. Again, I too dislike the call in design and have since the beta but it's not the cause for this thread.
25 Apr 2020, 20:17 PM
#27
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 448

well you should have seen greyhounds canister shot on release :)
25 Apr 2020, 20:22 PM
#28
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2020, 20:17 PMDAZ187
well you should have seen greyhounds canister shot on release :)


i ve seen all the cheese since the beta and used it myself.
25 Apr 2020, 22:16 PM
#29
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333


How is this similar to the greyhound? The only vehicle it counters is an un-upgraded halftrack and it's not like infantry spend a lot of time basediving.

This exact fact proves greyhound should not be call-in.

If a T70 was base diving, because it can, and the Panic puma was removed.
Why on earth slower and more fragile infantry "base diving" is a justification.

OP said countless times that the point is not greyhound, but its call-in unlogic mechanic.
No one answered him about that.
25 Apr 2020, 22:27 PM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15467 | Subs: 7


OP said countless times that the point is not greyhound, but its call-in unlogic mechanic.
No one answered him about that.

Because without a replay proving otherwise, given his event description, its a completely unrelated thing to his issue.
26 Apr 2020, 00:57 AM
#31
avatar of Cyanara

Posts: 752 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2020, 16:51 PMVipper
There is little reason for call-in vehicles with instant production to exist in the first place they could become build able form HQ.


Prior to this patch, unequivocally.

However, I do find it interesting that it has allowed the 3 minute cooldown on death for heavy tanks. Could that be replicated with a 3 minute build time? People would probably riot since that's 3 minutes of not being able to build anything else from that structure.

I'm not a modder though, so I have no idea what alternative trickery might be possible.
26 Apr 2020, 06:29 AM
#32
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1537


it doesnt matter if its a call in or a built unit, anything from a 222 up pretty well will punish you for crewing a weapon with zero nearby support. thats the role of these units. if you have AT and a snare (that one is most important) the unit will be drastically less effective and exploiting you.
without a replay i cant give more direct advice but if you have nothing to stop a LV from cruising up to your team weapons and plinking away at them they will cruise up to your team weapons and plink away at them. its not a design issue, its not a balance issue, its called how the game works.


The Greyhound is especially good at this with canister shot. Normally I'm not a fan of it because of the time delay but it works great against someone trying to recrew weapons.

If they made it buildable, it would arrive sooner. That seems like more of a buff than the nerf that OP is wanting. I tried a couple in 4v4 games today. Neither of them paid for themselves.
26 Apr 2020, 06:31 AM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8566 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2020, 00:57 AMCyanara


Prior to this patch, unequivocally.

However, I do find it interesting that it has allowed the 3 minute cooldown on death for heavy tanks. Could that be replicated with a 3 minute build time? People would probably riot since that's 3 minutes of not being able to build anything else from that structure.

I'm not a modder though, so I have no idea what alternative trickery might be possible.

Well super heavies are not that much of an issue now but some other units are.

In addition the current systems is mess where since it seem there a number of different solutions for these units.
26 Apr 2020, 06:45 AM
#34
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 817

I mean by 5command points you should at least have a 222



26 Apr 2020, 10:22 AM
#35
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 927

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2020, 00:57 AMCyanara


However, I do find it interesting that it has allowed the 3 minute cooldown on death for heavy tanks. Could that be replicated with a 3 minute build time? People would probably riot since that's 3 minutes of not being able to build anything else from that structure.

I'm not a modder though, so I have no idea what alternative trickery might be possible.


The OKW KT call-in is hardcoded the way it is summoned in; so it cannot be moved with a mod without having to dig deeper within the code.
26 Apr 2020, 16:51 PM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7208 | Subs: 1

It's weird to call it meta when it's not meta :P
26 Apr 2020, 17:35 PM
#37
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 87

It's weird to call it meta when it's not meta :P



It is catchy though.
26 Apr 2020, 17:51 PM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15467 | Subs: 7




It is catchy though.

Its so 2017, mr Internet Explorer.
26 Apr 2020, 18:28 PM
#39
avatar of Kieselberg

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2020, 17:51 PMKatitof

Its so 2017, mr Internet Explorer.


Excuse me, Mr. Worldwide.
26 Apr 2020, 23:24 PM
#40
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1493

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Apr 2020, 12:11 PMKatitof

A 222 can deal with it.


a SINGLE 222? Really? Like how u always think 444 is an EFFICIENT counter to AEC despite probably not seeing a single game where Ost decided to get 444 after seeing AEC arrive since 2016.
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