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I am the only player feeling the game is still unbalanced ?

21 Apr 2020, 12:31 PM
#1
avatar of Solcastel

Posts: 20

I played for the realease, I have something like 1,500 hours on COH. And I still feel german are definetely superior to soviet and ally in general.

I am playing only in 2C2 with a friend, and often I play against bad player and loose, even if i took unity in the beginning or take avantage during the beginning.

I feel that german have everything better than soviet. For instance something a german make artillery fixe, so in my turn I make artillery and target his artillery => 90% I will loose the duel even if I attack first.

For infantery during the end of the game, it's a nightmare if my friend don't give my Vickers. Conscrit are just destroyed by everything (Obersoldatend, MG42 Grenadier, STG Volks, etc.).

Globally, I feel that there are 2 problems in COH :
- The inf anti tank is really strong from the German side (Panzergrenadier + panzershrek is very good) and weak from the ally side (PTRS is almost usefull during the end of the game).
- German have too different option. For instance my in sovietique, if I want a heave tank i have to take a commander, If i want a good infantery I have to took a commander. But OKW (Obersolden, Stormpionner ; Tiger 2) and normal german (Grenadier MG42, Panzergrenadier ; Panther/Bombarder) have strong) have everythings directly. If in sovietic I take a commander without a ISU 152/KV-2, I know during the end game i am totaly dead because i will have to fight against Tiger/Elephant and I will by storm.

BTW : Now I find the guard soldier very weak, except the anti-tank abillity it's not a good infantery for me


What do you think ?



21 Apr 2020, 12:58 PM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15469 | Subs: 7

Balance is subjective and perception of it is highly dependent on game mode and rank you're playing at.

Players ranked 1000 see everything as unbalanced, because they can't play the game and use units properly, while players of rank 200 or better see only few things imbalanced if any.
21 Apr 2020, 13:02 PM
#3
avatar of newblue

Posts: 5

I played for the realease, I have something like 1,500 hours on COH. And I still feel german are definetely superior to soviet and ally in general.

I am playing only in 2C2 with a friend, and often I play against bad player and loose, even if i took unity in the beginning or take avantage during the beginning.

I feel that german have everything better than soviet. For instance something a german make artillery fixe, so in my turn I make artillery and target his artillery => 90% I will loose the duel even if I attack first.

For infantery during the end of the game, it's a nightmare if my friend don't give my Vickers. Conscrit are just destroyed by everything (Obersoldatend, MG42 Grenadier, STG Volks, etc.).

Globally, I feel that there are 2 problems in COH :
- The inf anti tank is really strong from the German side (Panzergrenadier + panzershrek is very good) and weak from the ally side (PTRS is almost usefull during the end of the game).
- German have too different option. For instance my in sovietique, if I want a heave tank i have to take a commander, If i want a good infantery I have to took a commander. But OKW (Obersolden, Stormpionner ; Tiger 2) and normal german (Grenadier MG42, Panzergrenadier ; Panther/Bombarder) have strong) have everythings directly. If in sovietic I take a commander without a ISU 152/KV-2, I know during the end game i am totaly dead because i will have to fight against Tiger/Elephant and I will by storm.

BTW : Now I find the guard soldier very weak, except the anti-tank abillity it's not a good infantery for me


What do you think ?





Have you considered asymmetrical balance? Units are not supposed to be equal. There are times where Sovjets get out units earlier, but in direct comparison they might be weaker than German units.

Soviet infantry if weaker of course, they are also cheaper and have more units per squad.

You can't compare strength of units directly. Don't compare the stats of Obersoldaten vs your standard Soviet Infantry. Of course Obersolaten are going to win. Does any other faction have t4 Infantry for 400 manpower and 40 reinforcement cost?

Soviet has one of the best lategame in 1vs1 because of their durability. You must play really really bad to be able to lose a 7 man conscript squad. Whereas Obersoldaten only have 4 models, so you almost have to retreat once you lose 2 of them.

Sturmpioniere are tasked with close range-agression, mine-sweeping, repair and provide medkits for OKW player. Its impossible to do everything at once with this unit. You can abuse this by laying many mines which they can't sweep because they have to repair tanks.

Tiger 2 hits so late into the game you should already be prepared to deal with him. Tech for OKW is very expensive. If your opponent has enough ressources for a Tiger, he could have just made more Panzer IV instead.

It seems like you don't quite grasp the concept of the game. Do you want everything to be the same? You can't compare units against other units, you must compare timinigs when these units are available, which uprades they get and what they are supposed to do.
21 Apr 2020, 13:37 PM
#4
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 296

Nope not at all the game is still and always will be rediculously broken.

Take the British insane unkillable tanks(prime example the avre which also wipes half your army with one shot while soaking up all the damage axis tanks can dish out like its nothing, while allied tank killers pick them off as if they were paper mache)

All allied tank hunters rediculously overperform compared to their axis counterpartrs.

The superiority and actual viability of just about every allied ability over axis abilites across the board.

The superior infantry of allied factions as well as superior weapons upgrades. Why do allied factions now have superior early game as well as late game as well as superior tanks and infantry.............. oh wait lets not forget how much better allied artillery options are compared to axis.

Allied stuff is much cheaper and less manpower drain, even population cap is skewed in favor of allies they can have much bigger and more diverse armies not to mention most allied units are like jacks of all trades compared to the very specific roles of each axis unit. When you compare a pop maxed army of an allied faction to that of an axis faction the allied army is always bigger and will not likely have any holes that can be exploited while the Axis will have to max pop their army in a certain way to just barely be able to counter whatever gimmick strat the allied player decides to throw at you and you will have extreme weaknesses in your army that can be easily xploited by the jack of all trades and easily replacable allied army.

Now all these advantages I pointed out are true and real of course most allied players are going to cry foul and lie through their teeth and say thats not true L2P blah blah we just better players etc. But the truth is those people are complete liars or incapable of being honest with themselves and have actually convinced themselves that it is their amazing skill and smarts that wins them these disproportional amount of games of course they do. Its why they play allies for the much easier wins to feed their false E-peen egos, simply so they convince themselves they are good.

But all these advantages are true. Now some are not by a huge margin and the level of advantage and area of advantage varies depending on which allied faction you choose but they all have all of these advantages over axis factions. And while some of these advantages are negigable by themselves you add them all together across the board and yes this game is broken and yes it is rediculous! And no there is no excuse for it whatsoever.
21 Apr 2020, 13:49 PM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15469 | Subs: 7

Nope not at all the game is still and always will be rediculously broken.

Take the British insane unkillable tanks(prime example the avre which also wipes half your army with one shot while soaking up all the damage axis tanks can dish out like its nothing, while allied tank killers pick them off as if they were paper mache)

Damn, if you consider AVRE unkillable, wait until you'll find out Tiger stats. I guess you'll label it as invincible immortal doom machine.
21 Apr 2020, 13:52 PM
#6
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 296

The first one that cries agianst the truth and find it offensive we all know why :D everyone knows even if they wont admit it.

Oh and just to make sure Im not full of shizzzz cause I havent played allies in over 3 4 years (not to mention i hardly play this game at all anymore because it has nothing to offer no real competition cause its fake cause its a broken game) I played a couple games as soviets and USF( sorry ill never touch brits thats just way too dishonorable) and yep nothings changes it was soo easy cheesy spam mode it was rediculous its like playing in auto spam auto win mode. So Yeah you can deny the truth all you want Kaitif it doesnt mean the truth isnt the truth ;)


Axis players same rank vs allied 10x better players hands down and they had to work their asses off for their wins while the allied just sat back and a move spammed for the win you can practically go to sleep while playing allies and still come out on top.
21 Apr 2020, 13:57 PM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15469 | Subs: 7

The first one that cries agianst the truth and find it offensive we all know why :D everyone knows even if they wont admit it.

Ahh yes, the "prophet of truth without a proof".
There is always one around.
21 Apr 2020, 14:03 PM
#8
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 307 | Subs: 1

*Ting ting ting*

May i have your attention?

ok thanks

L2P
21 Apr 2020, 14:06 PM
#9
avatar of KONIUX27

Posts: 120

L2P issues :D
21 Apr 2020, 14:29 PM
#10
avatar of Solcastel

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2020, 12:58 PMKatitof
Balance is subjective and perception of it is highly dependent on game mode and rank you're playing at.

Players ranked 1000 see everything as unbalanced, because they can't play the game and use units properly, while players of rank 200 or better see only few things imbalanced if any.


Honnestly, I feel that 50% I lost it's because the guys were better and 50% because german are broken / or the guy spam stupid things like MG and support and I have nothing to smash him.

Sometime we just destroy the guys during the beginning, like taking 2 or 3 sections squad and we lost finally
21 Apr 2020, 14:34 PM
#11
avatar of Solcastel

Posts: 20

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Apr 2020, 13:02 PMnewblue


Have you considered asymmetrical balance? Units are not supposed to be equal. There are times where Sovjets get out units earlier, but in direct comparison they might be weaker than German units.

Soviet infantry if weaker of course, they are also cheaper and have more units per squad.

You can't compare strength of units directly. Don't compare the stats of Obersoldaten vs your standard Soviet Infantry. Of course Obersolaten are going to win. Does any other faction have t4 Infantry for 400 manpower and 40 reinforcement cost?

Soviet has one of the best lategame in 1vs1 because of their durability. You must play really really bad to be able to lose a 7 man conscript squad. Whereas Obersoldaten only have 4 models, so you almost have to retreat once you lose 2 of them.

Sturmpioniere are tasked with close range-agression, mine-sweeping, repair and provide medkits for OKW player. Its impossible to do everything at once with this unit. You can abuse this by laying many mines which they can't sweep because they have to repair tanks.

Tiger 2 hits so late into the game you should already be prepared to deal with him. Tech for OKW is very expensive. If your opponent has enough ressources for a Tiger, he could have just made more Panzer IV instead.

It seems like you don't quite grasp the concept of the game. Do you want everything to be the same? You can't compare units against other units, you must compare timinigs when these units are available, which uprades they get and what they are supposed to do.


you should try to understand a post before to reply ;)
21 Apr 2020, 14:39 PM
#12
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1535 | Subs: 1

This thread isn't going to be cancer at all. First most "omg Soviets so UP" further down thread a wall of text about how Allies have everything better. Just take it to the Steam forums guys...
21 Apr 2020, 16:03 PM
#13
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7209 | Subs: 1

First of all, welcome to the forums. Next time i suggest if you have any struggles to visit this section https://www.coh2.org/forum/2/state-office rather than run towards the balance forums.
You should save the replay of the game you feel there's an imbalance and upload it here https://www.coh2.org/replay

In case you don't know:
https://www.coh2.org/topic/84257/useful-interesting-threads-2-0

C:User\xxx\Documents\MyGames\company of heroes 2\playback

Last replay is always saved as temp.rec if you don't specifically saved the file with another name.


What unfortunately most people don't understand, is that it's not about how much time you spend spend doing something, it's about how thoughtfully you are doing so.

You will learn more from 5 hours of methodically learning than spamming 1500 hours of game just playing whatever you feel like.

At least you identified that on teamgames, ISU152 more so than KV2, are meta. More so because it's "easier" to play than other commanders. In order to counter the super heavies TD (Tiger and KT can easily be dealt with Su85/Zis) you will need a combination of ram + offmap, mark vehicle + button or Penal satchel + FMR on maps which are too lane-y and difficult been able to pull wide flanks.

You might dismiss people telling you L2P but breaking top 200 is barely what in other games would be diamond or plat league. Anything below is more likely that the issue is with the player and not with the game.
22 Apr 2020, 13:36 PM
#20
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 191

You are not the only one at all the vast majority of players know the game is unbalanced. Even with the "balance" patches the team either ignore major issues (soviet field hq, usf pak howitzer etc.. ), change things that don't need changing, change minor things that do nothing to address the issue directly such as Wehrmacht tier 4 and grenadiers being weak, or overly buffing units whilst severely nerfing others such as the tiger causing even more imbalance.

It's a vicious circle that will continue again and again and again.
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