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Question about 120mm mortar

30 Mar 2020, 17:35 PM
#1
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515

Do players in general, or the Balance Team in particular, think this unit is worth the 330/0 and 10 pop cap?

I think its current performance is okay, it forces retreats if RNG is on your side, and is great at destroying overly-aggressive OKW trucks. I wouldn't want to see the old 120 return, as it was particularly shitty to play against as OST. I get them once in a while if I want to attack a truck before getting a Katy.

It still seems like the price should be 280-300 and the pop cap 7-8. After the patch hits, the pop cap will be only 3 less than a howitzer.
30 Mar 2020, 17:41 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2613

I’d make it 8 or 9 pop cap but no more buffs. It’s not a bad unit.
30 Mar 2020, 17:52 PM
#3
avatar of XARDAS

Posts: 12

In compare with Pak howi = total trash ... but what should OST use to counter it? Super,,long,, range MHT or normal mortar? Allies are in general in much stronger position than Axis (speaking about indirect fire) ...
30 Mar 2020, 17:56 PM
#4
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2032

Reduce MP price to 300 make it 8 pop cap
30 Mar 2020, 18:15 PM
#5
avatar of Olekman
Modmaker Badge

Posts: 117

Other than the changes mentioned before, standardizing its barrage AoE with its autofire AoE would be a good - near/mid/far for autofire is 1,5/3/4,5; for barrage it's 1,1/3,5/4,5. It's probably a remnant from some old slapdash fix by Relic from back when it fired mini-nukes.
30 Mar 2020, 19:04 PM
#6
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 977 | Subs: 1

I just messed around with that mortar in cheat mode recently.
The normal SOV mortar is much quicker destroying buildings. Against a static squad however the 120mm kills it quicker.

Plus you have a bit more range. 20 if I am not mistaken, but not sure about the exact number.
30 Mar 2020, 19:10 PM
#7
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 17:52 PMXARDAS
In compare with Pak howi = total trash ... but what should OST use to counter it? Super,,long,, range MHT or normal mortar? Allies are in general in much stronger position than Axis (speaking about indirect fire) ...


I wouldn't benchmark anything against the Pak Howie. Anything not on wheels is worse than the Pack howie.
When they nerfed the accuracy, I tried it a couple of times and didn't have much success with it, but think I just had bad RNG. One of my teammates uses them regularly now and thinks they're great.

A MHT seems to soft-counter it okay, particularly with incendiary.
30 Mar 2020, 19:16 PM
#8
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7098 | Subs: 1

-Vet value should be 50% more not 100% (this was basically their old value when the mortar had precision strike and 120dmg)

-Cost should go down to 310mp and 8 popcap.

-Barrage AoE profile should be equal to auto fire (probably bug/forgotten band aid fix)
30 Mar 2020, 19:20 PM
#9
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515

I just messed around with that mortar in cheat mode recently.
The normal SOV mortar is much quicker destroying buildings. Against a static squad however the 120mm kills it quicker.

Plus you have a bit more range. 20 if I am not mistaken, but not sure about the exact number.


What type of buildings, ambient, OKW trucks, or bunkers?

The barrage range is 20 more for the 120mm. Autofire is 80 for both.

Somebody else did a comparison in cheat mode awhile ago. IIRC, they got did better against buildings with the 120 but the difference wasn't a lot. It may be a little RNG since the 120 is so innacurate.
30 Mar 2020, 20:30 PM
#10
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 977 | Subs: 1



What type of buildings, ambient, OKW trucks, or bunkers?

The barrage range is 20 more for the 120mm. Autofire is 80 for both.

Somebody else did a comparison in cheat mode awhile ago. IIRC, they got did better against buildings with the 120 but the difference wasn't a lot. It may be a little RNG since the 120 is so innacurate.


OST bunkers, constantly used the barrage ability at range ~80. I think the normal mortar cleared it in one minute (although 2 and a half barrages needed) while the 120mm needed 1:30 or something. Not 100% sure about the exact numbers, but something like that.

I'm pretty sure they are worse against buildings since they fire way slower and have the same damage. Also scatter is worse on the 120mm, at least people have told so in the forums.
30 Mar 2020, 20:59 PM
#11
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2825 | Subs: 1

Regular Soviet mortar with the flare make it almost must have compared to the 120 where the same ability is behind vet1. I'll say it is even better to back tech T2 for the regular mortar than calling a 120mm.

vet0 flare make you own mortar vet way faster since you have better accuracy on your target.

So in regard to OP's question, I'll say that even cheaper I don't see what would make me to call one instead the regular one.
30 Mar 2020, 21:17 PM
#12
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 20:59 PMEsxile
Regular Soviet mortar with the flare make it almost must have compared to the 120 where the same ability is behind vet1. I'll say it is even better to back tech T2 for the regular mortar than calling a 120mm.

vet0 flare make you own mortar vet way faster since you have better accuracy on your target.

So in regard to OP's question, I'll say that even cheaper I don't see what would make me to call one instead the regular one.


One of them somewhat soft counters an Ost mortar, which somewhat soft counters the standard Soviet mortar. It can slow down harassment of your infantry by LEIG's, which the standard mortar isn't good at doing.

It should be a little bit situational instead of the old OP 120. Even with the price decrease, I'd often get the standard mortar for the better ROF and vet 0 flare.
30 Mar 2020, 21:33 PM
#13
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515



OST bunkers, constantly used the barrage ability at range ~80. I think the normal mortar cleared it in one minute (although 2 and a half barrages needed) while the 120mm needed 1:30 or something. Not 100% sure about the exact numbers, but something like that.

I'm pretty sure they are worse against buildings since they fire way slower and have the same damage. Also scatter is worse on the 120mm, at least people have told so in the forums.


I'm pretty sure scatter is worse on the 120. I played against someone who had a 120 last week. It missed a lot. Once in awhile it would hit close enough that I'd have to send a unit back to heal.

It could be that I thought it was better against trucks because I was able to nearly continuously hit the truck while the normal mortar has to move around a lot or risk getting wiped by LEIG's. The standard mortar seems like it fires about every 10 seconds while the 120 is about every 15.
30 Mar 2020, 23:30 PM
#14
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2187

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Mar 2020, 17:52 PMXARDAS
In compare with Pak howi = total trash ... but what should OST use to counter it? Super,,long,, range MHT or normal mortar? Allies are in general in much stronger position than Axis (speaking about indirect fire) ...


I found mortar halftrack incendiary barrage vs pakhowie (or 120mm if it gets ever used) to be really useful
31 Mar 2020, 04:48 AM
#15
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2546 | Subs: 1

-Vet value should be 50% more not 100% (this was basically their old value when the mortar had precision strike and 120dmg)

-Cost should go down to 310mp and 8 popcap.

-Barrage AoE profile should be equal to auto fire (probably bug/forgotten band aid fix)


^ This.
31 Mar 2020, 06:39 AM
#16
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 293

what? Barrage AoE is different from the autoattack one? Better or worse?

Most of the gripes I have with this unit its the setup. Unlike other heavier indirect fire units, the 120 doesn't set up in an arc, meaning its free to adjust to any target it sees fit. The mortar operator has to pack up, turn, and set it up again and you can lost a lot of time doing so. It would be a nice QoL change for the unit to work as a Pack Howitzer.

Also the shrapnel effects is off.

Its good at bursting down clumped squads and forcing static weapons out, but it can be bullied by ISGs. Its really bad at smoking and poping flares can be disastrous thanks to the bug that renders mortars unable to fire.

Overall, its mostly a gimmick unit and the manpower is best invested in other units and I'm not quite sure about the posibility of turning it into a valuable asset for the soviet army
31 Mar 2020, 07:23 AM
#17
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2825 | Subs: 1



One of them somewhat soft counters an Ost mortar, which somewhat soft counters the standard Soviet mortar. It can slow down harassment of your infantry by LEIG's, which the standard mortar isn't good at doing.

It should be a little bit situational instead of the old OP 120. Even with the price decrease, I'd often get the standard mortar for the better ROF and vet 0 flare.


then I recommend you to use flare and barrage on its own mortar/leig. I had good success with it.
31 Mar 2020, 09:15 AM
#18
avatar of SweetrollNearTheDoor

Posts: 124

I feel that 120mm mortar also has a lot of lost DPS potential due to the longer re-setup / refacing times compared to other mortars causing it to lose precious firing time. If the 120mm mortar was more responsive and refaced more quickly I think people could get a lot more value out of it without having to resort to messing with its other stats too much. In addition longer refacing times make the already unresponsive mortar barrages painfully unreliable.

The perfectly balanced popcap of the 120mm definitely is an issue as well though.
1 Apr 2020, 00:44 AM
#19
avatar of XARDAS

Posts: 12



I found mortar halftrack incendiary barrage vs pakhowie (or 120mm if it gets ever used) to be really useful


Thanks for tip! Going to try it asa i will do OST session once again :)
1 Apr 2020, 02:43 AM
#20
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Apr 2020, 00:44 AMXARDAS


Thanks for tip! Going to try it asa i will do OST session once again :)


Be sure to watch your MHT, it takes about 3-4 hits from Pack howie to kill a MHT so if you don't watch it you can lose it.
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