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Tiger main gun nerf too much? (Winter patch)

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22 Mar 2020, 19:15 PM
#81
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2411 | Subs: 1


The kv1 clone and panther escq tanks from ukf exclude eachother, you cant have a basic churchill and comet be build by the same player. Something neither axis has to choose between.


You have to choose between them based on cost. Axis doesn't have a cheaper heavy that compares to Churchill or kv1

If they want a heavy it's 230 fuel at minimum. Spending that much on one unit inevitably keeps you from getting others
22 Mar 2020, 19:17 PM
#82
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 947

Jackson crew should be removed and self-spotting for su85. It would be so much better then. I understand that it is a tiger thread but to me it is connected. If tiger is overperforming and it is getting patched, the same should be done with those two. Much less cheesy game the result would be (Trust Joda)
22 Mar 2020, 20:59 PM
#83
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3946 | Subs: 1



Axis can get a stock heavy defensive tank like the KV1/Churchill? Where?

And don’t say KT, that’s a super heavy.

Is made up by most axis armour getting high armour requiring TDs to fight effeciently. OK for example does not have a non light vehicle with less than 230 armour if my memory serves me right, which is a significant advantage over the ~160 armour of allied armour.
22 Mar 2020, 21:55 PM
#84
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

For the record, Tightrope's tests aren't very conclusive because the Tiger I has always been weak against spread out squads because of its relatively small AOE. Its strength comes from high ROF, getting a lot of shots into clumped up squads (which happens a lot in real matches) which is impossible to test outside of getting a ton of real games in. The adjustments are minor, only geared towards reducing the OHK potential so that it doesn't wipe as much, so overal performance in a real match should still be good. The adjustments are not meant to make the Tiger (and the other heavies) necessarily weaker, but rather to make it (them) less oppressive. Heavies are still meant to be viable units.

AOE is hard to adjust because we have to basically guess the values because there is no way to standardize the values into some kind of performance gauge. Only the "live test" will show how it ultimately performs and if it needs any further adjustments.
could u check the scatter angle seems it to overshoot too much
22 Mar 2020, 22:09 PM
#85
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8265 | Subs: 1

could u check the scatter angle seems it to overshoot too much

That is probably not the angle. It could be the offset.
22 Mar 2020, 22:14 PM
#86
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 979 | Subs: 1

Yes it is the scatter offset. 0 means over and undershooting is equally common. >1 means it is more likely to overshoot.
22 Mar 2020, 22:25 PM
#87
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8265 | Subs: 1

Yes it is the scatter offset. 0 means over and undershooting is equally common. >1 means it is more likely to overshoot.

To be more accurate offset displaces the scatter areas as far as I know.
23 Mar 2020, 00:24 AM
#88
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 176

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.
23 Mar 2020, 00:34 AM
#89
avatar of borobadger

Posts: 139

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.


I like this idea.
23 Mar 2020, 01:59 AM
#90
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.


I didn't even think about it, but it seems like a very good idea.

23 Mar 2020, 02:32 AM
#91
avatar of GGnore

Posts: 47

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.


Winner ^ more micro/better results.
23 Mar 2020, 04:40 AM
#92
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 720

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.


This is a good idea
23 Mar 2020, 06:53 AM
#93
avatar of srider

Posts: 31

It seems like too many people are reacting to the Tightrope video rather than actually playing the mod.

The tiger does not perform like it does in the video in the actual game, and it is weird that the test performed in the video yielded the result it did.

The more interesting discussion is why controlled tests like the one in the video are oftentimes not indicative of actual in game performance for reasons other than RNG.
23 Mar 2020, 07:14 AM
#94
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 567



Axis can get a stock heavy defensive tank like the KV1/Churchill? Where?

And don’t say KT, that’s a super heavy.


And a super heavy cant be a defensive tank how?
23 Mar 2020, 13:02 PM
#95
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 947

I'm generally against nerfing the heavies by making them worse - I would nerf them by making them more expensive manpowerwise. Sth like at least 100 manpower. If people want to spend that much for one tank - why not?
23 Mar 2020, 13:22 PM
#96
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 171

Personally I feel the best way to balance all of the heavy tanks is to give them ammo switching rounds like the Sherman. AP Rounds for Anti Tank, and High Explosive Rounds for Infantry. This way Heavy Tanks cant solo entire armies and must choose what target they must be good against and promote the usage of combined arms.


Wont work for all heavies like Elephant & J-Tiger B. Unless we want them to be like ISU-152 kinda role? Hmm

Sounds not too bad. This will make esp elephant a bit more useful against infantry.

Maybe add it to the patch preview for testing? @Hannibal B-)
23 Mar 2020, 17:06 PM
#97
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I would revert the AOE because we already pushed the VP on these tanks. Plus before Tiger was meh tank.
23 Mar 2020, 17:25 PM
#98
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Mar 2020, 13:22 PMVIGNASH


Wont work for all heavies like Elephant & J-Tiger B. Unless we want them to be like ISU-152 kinda role? Hmm

Sounds not too bad. This will make esp elephant a bit more useful against infantry.

Maybe add it to the patch preview for testing? @Hannibal B-)


Well ISU-152, Elephant, Jagdtiger are not really heavies but more like super heavy tanks. They are in a class of their own compared to the Tiger/IS-2/Pershing/King Tiger.
23 Mar 2020, 20:04 PM
#99
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7098 | Subs: 1



Well ISU-152, Elephant, Jagdtiger are not really heavies but more like super heavy tanks. They are in a class of their own compared to the Tiger/IS-2/Pershing/King Tiger.


KT is borderline between a heavy and super heavy. By having more HP and dmg as well.
Same with Pershing been borderline a heavy.
24 Mar 2020, 15:30 PM
#100
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 171



KT is borderline between a heavy and super heavy. By having more HP and dmg as well.
Same with Pershing been borderline a heavy.


So are we going to test this new idea proposed by @Kurobane in this patch?

Cuz it looks promising way to deal with the heavies solution.
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