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russian armor

infantry balance

18 Mar 2020, 16:21 PM
#42
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2926

Allies OP nurf plz thread #5491237812631745
19 Mar 2020, 02:02 AM
#43
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 605

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 09:54 AMedo
Yesterday in a match a penal squad didn't get pinned down when i was shooting them in the face with a captured vickers inside a building


so the problem is with the Viecker and it need buff ?
19 Mar 2020, 04:51 AM
#44
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2401 | Subs: 1



60% is higher than 67% and 61%? Huh.....the more you know...


I'm honestly surprised the numbers in OPs list were in proper order
edo
19 Mar 2020, 14:18 PM
#45
avatar of edo

Posts: 31



so the problem is with the Viecker and it need buff ?

no, penals need a nerf, just to suppression resistance a bit
edo
19 Mar 2020, 14:20 PM
#46
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 23:02 PMCODGUY


So in other words you suck playing OST and OKW?

so in sostance allies have a start too strong and infantry quite OP? like MG and UC spam?
19 Mar 2020, 14:28 PM
#47
avatar of The Spycrab

Posts: 37

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2020, 14:18 PMedo

no, penals need a nerf, just to suppression resistance a bit


MG42 suppresses penals in 1 or 2 bursts in open cover though so its not penals that are the problem here, the vickers is designed as a damaging MG more than suppression tool however (correct me if I’m wrong), and fine with this although it’d be nice for some extra suppression but increasing the time to pin instead if possible
edo
19 Mar 2020, 14:50 PM
#48
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 11:31 AMmaahowl


I would love to see your playercard, these are some pretty big claims.

Also, I guess I should answer your complaints, since no one did, so...




1) shocktroops cost a massive 360 mp, and one of their main strenghts is durability. The best way to combat them are vechicles, or snipers, or staying as far away as possible at all times.
2) conscripts are actually less cost-efficient at the start of the game, they only get really good when you get the mobilize reserves upgrade (which is getting a nerf next patch anyway)
3) pioneers are actually capable of winning against any mainline infantry if they ambush them from close range (maybe except riflemen) and flamethrower is supposed to kill garrisoned/clumped up behind cover infantry
4) fallshrimjagers are already a very powerful alternative to obersoldaten with camo though and they were overperforming recently
5) mg 34 is weaker and, to compensate, costs 250 mp + has access to ap rounds that also greatly boost damage vs infantry. Also the maxim is so bad at surpressing infantry a panzergren squad can run up to it frontally and throw a nade at it, mg fights is the only time a maxim can be useful, and it's not like mg fights are a common event
6) also assault grenadiers are available at 0 cp and cost 80 mp less, a cheaper squad is supposed to lose to an expensive one that has the same role
7) you are not supposed to spam sturmpios all game as a mainline infantry replacement + they are also tasked with building mines, wire and repairing vechicles, so they shouldn't be as cost efficient as combat-only infantry
8) volksgrenadiers with stg44 cost 250 mp + 60 muni, riflemen with double bar cost 280 mp + 120 muni + needs weapon rack research while OKW unlocks upgrades with normal tech
9) raketenwerfer is already a very good AT unit (cheap, good pen, can retreat), turning WITH camo would be overkill
10) it trades mobility for firepower and accouracy, retreating would make it better than mortars in every way
11) OKW doesn't need earlygame buffs when it already is this strong early on, also OKW is supposed to have weak teamweapons
12) kubel is not made for combat, it's for recon with vet 1 maphack and is dirt cheap, against light vechicles you have sturmpios with panzershreck and raketenwerfers and pumas
13) ostheer heal also doesn't require you to upgrade your squad with munitions and is gained with vet instead of tech


1)they come at 2CP and there is no infantry able to counter it, when you have tanks it's too late and they will surely have counter
2)if you try actually conscripts can kill volks and granadiers in close rage, with or without cover (for both)
3)that's true but too squishy for theyre cost (make them 340 as cost and strong as panzergranadiers, ofc too op for early game but to take as example) theyre loss is a pain
4)i would nerf a bit theyre damage for more survavabilty
5)the piercing rounds are an ability of vet 1 like the mg42, though the 42 is much better, also the vickers gets default piercing rounds at vet 2 and the cal 50 has piercing rounds from vet 0 as ability
6)for that i would put them like shocktroops, you're right that it would be overkill else
7)because of that replacing tham should be less costly like any other faction
8)volks cost 260 now, for the ammo is true but after they will underperform,for the research you have to build the trucka and that costs
9)zis and pak can with ambus training
10) the 120mm russian mortar can, and even with 1 man when the others can't
11) that's not true, scout car and UC can beat easily all infantry in early game and have high resistance
12)still not in early game and if you play ost you've got nothing to counter them
13)true but the british version is much more efficient, cheap and easy, and also gives a survavibility bonus to the squad, it cost just 30 of ammo once instead of 15 all times, heals all troops nearby instead of 1, doesn't need to be cast, tech lv1 with ost would be much better and fair
19 Mar 2020, 15:01 PM
#49
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15166 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2020, 14:50 PMedo


1)they come at 2CP and there is no infantry able to counter it, when you have tanks it's too late and they will surely have counter


Infantry isn't supposed to counter them, vehicles are.
You know, same principle why you don't counter flamer tanks with AT infantry.

2)if you try actually conscripts can kill volks and granadiers in close rage, with or without cover (for both)


Realistically, cons are not warp spiders and they'll take enough damage on approach to be forced off by volks, vs grens its all RNG but overral equal combat, which should be as they cost the same.

3)that's true but too squishy for theyre cost (make them 340 as cost and strong as panzergranadiers, ofc too op for early game but to take as example) theyre loss is a pain

Its a 200mp utility squad. It performs as one.

4)i would nerf a bit theyre damage for more survavabilty

That's called Obersoldaten.

5)the piercing rounds are an ability of vet 1 like the mg42, though the 42 is much better, also the vickers gets default piercing rounds at vet 2 and the cal 50 has piercing rounds from vet 0 as ability

And all of them are still incomparably worse then incendiary rounds on cheapest HMG in game.
6)for that i would put them like shocktroops, you're right that it would be overkill else

Post that in wishlist then, because its not happening.

7)because of that replacing tham should be less costly like any other faction

Don't overextend them then? Contrary to other factions, you don't need multiple of them just to keep up with repairs.

8)volks cost 260 now, for the ammo is true but after they will underperform,for the research you have to build the trucka and that costs

That's still cost free unlock.
Cheaper units lose to more expensive units of same role.

9)zis and pak can with ambus training

ZiS camo is doctrinal.
PaK doesn't have any.

10) the 120mm russian mortar can, and even with 1 man when the others can't

120mm has 1 less men then other soviet squads, meaning it has the exact same durability as other soviet team weapon squads. It is nowhere near as precise and accurate as ISG.
11) that's not true, scout car and UC can beat easily all infantry in early game and have high resistance

Both will lose to volks in green cover and both will be ripped apart by sturmpios up close. Puppchen is also a thing.

12)still not in early game and if you play ost you've got nothing to counter them

You can have raketten as 1st unit you build. It doesn't get any earlier then that.

13)true but the british version is much more efficient, cheap and easy, and also gives a survavibility bonus to the squad, it cost just 30 of ammo once instead of 15 all times, heals all troops nearby instead of 1, doesn't need to be cast, tech lv1 with ost would be much better and fair

Use 251.
edo
20 Mar 2020, 11:54 AM
#50
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2020, 15:01 PMKatitof


Infantry isn't supposed to counter them, vehicles are.
You know, same principle why you don't counter flamer tanks with AT infantry.



Realistically, cons are not warp spiders and they'll take enough damage on approach to be forced off by volks, vs grens its all RNG but overral equal combat, which should be as they cost the same.


Its a 200mp utility squad. It performs as one.


That's called Obersoldaten.


And all of them are still incomparably worse then incendiary rounds on cheapest HMG in game.

Post that in wishlist then, because its not happening.


Don't overextend them then? Contrary to other factions, you don't need multiple of them just to keep up with repairs.


That's still cost free unlock.
Cheaper units lose to more expensive units of same role.


ZiS camo is doctrinal.
PaK doesn't have any.


120mm has 1 less men then other soviet squads, meaning it has the exact same durability as other soviet team weapon squads. It is nowhere near as precise and accurate as ISG.

Both will lose to volks in green cover and both will be ripped apart by sturmpios up close. Puppchen is also a thing.


You can have raketten as 1st unit you build. It doesn't get any earlier then that.


Use 251.


1)shocktroops must be nerfed, you can't pretend to be countered only with vehicles and they're overperfoming for they're cost, in early game at 2 cp you don't have tanks to counter them, and even if you do they will be backed my zis. mg's can't alway be in the right place at the right moment and can be avoided with a smoke granade. end? not even 1k manpower total inf squad can deal with 1 of them at close range

2)sturmpioneer actually cost 300mp, say that they perform like a 200 one is absurd

12)okw has the rocketwefer but ostheer don't and they can't counter a UC with a mg i yellow cover already placed

13)no it costs and requires pop, the british don't, also i would switch mp+fuel to ammo for okw doctors, like for british, and retreat point cost from 300 to 200, like it's still for them
20 Mar 2020, 12:03 PM
#51
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15166 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 11:54 AMedo


1)shocktroops must be nerfed, you can't pretend to be countered only with vehicles and they're overperfoming for they're cost, in early game at 2 cp you don't have tanks to counter them, and even if you do they will be backed my zis. mg's can't alway be in the right place at the right moment and can be avoided with a smoke granade. end? not even 1k manpower total inf squad can deal with 1 of them at close range

They were just buffed, because they were bad.
They aren't getting nerfed, because they are reasonable.
At some point, you'll have to learn to play the game.

2)sturmpioneer actually cost 300mp, say that they perform like a 200 one is absurd

Pioneers and sturmpioneers are 2 completely different units.
You've mentioned pioneers.
And sturms perform well for the cost, they roflstomp all other engineers while providing same utilities, they also roflstomp some mainline squads, in early game exclusively rifles stand a chance, so the only absurd thing here are your claims.

13)no it costs and requires pop, the british don't, also i would switch mp+fuel to ammo for okw doctors, like for british, and retreat point cost from 300 to 200, like it's still for them

Use 251.
20 Mar 2020, 19:14 PM
#52
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 593

This is so axis biased.
Every single suggestion you made buffs the axis or nerfs the allies.

Very little explanation as to why the changes you suggested should be implemented as well.
22 Mar 2020, 03:12 AM
#53
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2926

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 11:54 AMedo


1)shocktroops must be nerfed, you can't pretend to be countered only with vehicles and they're overperfoming for they're cost, in early game at 2 cp you don't have tanks to counter them, and even if you do they will be backed my zis. mg's can't alway be in the right place at the right moment and can be avoided with a smoke granade. end? not even 1k manpower total inf squad can deal with 1 of them at close range


Now imagine that but with good DPS at all all ranges, camouflage, and a vehicle counter and you have falls.
22 Mar 2020, 03:29 AM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3942 | Subs: 1



Now imagine that but with good DPS at all all ranges, camouflage, and a vehicle counter and you have falls.

While falls certainly are strong pretending that their durability is anywhere near +50% as many models AND armour is not doing discussion any good. You are better than that.
22 Mar 2020, 07:49 AM
#55
avatar of DAZ187

Posts: 441

you cant be serious right lol ? every unit has a window in which it over performs
22 Mar 2020, 16:47 PM
#56
avatar of A table

Posts: 182

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 18:25 PMedo
1)actually russian shocktroops are overperfoming being hard to kill with any kind of infantry in 2vs1 at medium close range
2)conscripts are actually more efficient than ganadiers and volksgranadiers (who's cost should be brought back to 250) so cost and efficienty of the units should be reworked
3)pioneers actually are totally useless and also theyre flamethrower deals nothing damage against enemy infantry
4)fallschirmjäger should come with all 4 fg41 equipped like before and have squad size and life increased to match other faction paratroopers, else reduce theyre cost
5)mg's need a rebalance, especially the 34 that doesn't deal enough damage and suppression like others and the maxim needs a nerf because can be placed and shot dowm a mg42 that's already shooting at it
6)assault granadiers compared to shock troops are poorly underperforming and need a rework
7)sturmpioneers actually deal a good damage but are too easy to kill making them not enough cost efficient, for 300 they should have more life or cost less
8)stg44 upgrade on volksgranadiers doesn't make them as much efficient as americans infantry with bar so please balance them
9)allow the recketwefer to turn while camo is on
10)allow the lelg18 to retreat
11)allow okw to have the mg34 unlock at the beginning of the game like other faction
12)modify the british universal carriers and russian reconaissance vehicle because are too hard to kill in early game and give a easy win, the kubelwagen badly underperforms compared to them
13)ostheer squad heal should work like british one and be free, like they make the ability for 30 ammo and can use it freely


Lol. Your incapability to deal with all of this is just an l2p issue, and certainly doesn't warrant any balance changes.

Also love how Schocktroops are apparently too powerfull at short range. It's not like it is the supposed role or design of the unit.
23 Mar 2020, 01:52 AM
#57
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

1) yep
2) yep, 7man cons need more nerf
3) No
4) Nerf FG42 first, and then falls can equip 4 Fg42 like before
Other paratroopers come out 3cp and falls is 2cp
Need more word?
5) MG balance is fine

6) Think about cost and CP
7) L2P issue
8) Does volk cost anything to unlock stg44? Play USF first
9) No
10) No
11) I agree if Mg34 is unlocked when the first sWS truck is produced
12) L2p issue
13) No
23 Mar 2020, 22:15 PM
#58
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1431

Another case of L2P, except cons do need another nerf, thats it.
24 Mar 2020, 10:29 AM
#59
avatar of Grim

Posts: 851

Honestly, seeing who is actually taking the OP seriously is a great filter for future threads.
edo
24 Mar 2020, 10:46 AM
#60
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

This is so axis biased.
Every single suggestion you made buffs the axis or nerfs the allies.

Very little explanation as to why the changes you suggested should be implemented as well.


first you have to get the to the point if the unit has to be changed or not. anyways shocktroops need a nerf to damage and target size because 1 squad alone wipes out many squads
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