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russian armor

infantry balance

17 Mar 2020, 22:02 PM
#21
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7104 | Subs: 1



Isn't british placing also RNG? a. it works and is OP or b. the hole path-finding sucks.

Same for Maxim, a, it gets killed by two mortar hits or can take minutes of direct fire. All by the fact of random placing mechanics or bug-using. Same for the loop-of-death fix ingame, that the crew is target instead of gunner first, in many situations that reduces potential of killing it, making it more resistant than other HMGs (ok, they doesn't have loop-of-death) beeing also RNG.

Maxim is the RNG king, of beeing OP while beeing shit.


No. The problem is the way it burst and the whole "high dmg" profile. There are times that it snipes a model and takes time to re-fire failing to suppress.
17 Mar 2020, 22:04 PM
#22
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 257



No. The problem is the way it burst and the whole "high dmg" profile. There are times that it snipes a model and takes time to re-fire failing to suppress.


Despite your pretty good reasoning, that still sounds like RNG D:
17 Mar 2020, 22:09 PM
#23
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2413 | Subs: 1


I think it is THE MG where placing matters most. And with 6 men it can be a. fuk OR b. unkill-able with merge.


I think you mean it needs cons to merge with it just to keep it alive. The death loop consistently makes the 6 men crew absolutely meaningless

The maxim is just awful, I don't understand how some people can still debate this
17 Mar 2020, 22:12 PM
#24
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1162



No. The problem is the way it burst and the whole "high dmg" profile. There are times that it snipes a model and takes time to re-fire failing to suppress.


Same problems is with MG of T34 vs. hull-MG and turret-MG or Pnz4. Panzer 4 has more DPS, but because it will shoot on different crew-members T34 can kill e.g. a gunner way faster so it gets benefits versus PaKs.

That are mechanics very RNG and op.



I think you mean it needs cons to merge with it just to keep it alive. The death loop consistently makes the 6 men crew absolutely meaningless

The maxim is just awful, I don't understand how some people can still debate this


Maybe change the hole way it works... I am working on something in my barin for modding. ^^
17 Mar 2020, 22:44 PM
#25
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 988 | Subs: 1

I think we recently had a Maxim thread, you can reactivate that if necessary.

Apart from that I suggest to just let this troll thread die in peace.
17 Mar 2020, 23:01 PM
#26
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7104 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 22:04 PMKoRneY


Despite your pretty good reasoning, that still sounds like RNG D:


Which is why i said that the RNG MG is the Vickers, not the Maxim.
17 Mar 2020, 23:02 PM
#27
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 18:25 PMedo
1)actually russian shocktroops are overperfoming being hard to kill with any kind of infantry in 2vs1 at medium close range
2)conscripts are actually more efficient than ganadiers and volksgranadiers (who's cost should be brought back to 250) so cost and efficienty of the units should be reworked
3)pioneers actually are totally useless and also theyre flamethrower deals nothing damage against enemy infantry
4)fallschirmjäger should come with all 4 fg41 equipped like before and have squad size and life increased to match other faction paratroopers, else reduce theyre cost
5)mg's need a rebalance, especially the 34 that doesn't deal enough damage and suppression like others and the maxim needs a nerf because can be placed and shot dowm a mg42 that's already shooting at it
6)assault granadiers compared to shock troops are poorly underperforming and need a rework
7)sturmpioneers actually deal a good damage but are too easy to kill making them not enough cost efficient, for 300 they should have more life or cost less
8)stg44 upgrade on volksgranadiers doesn't make them as much efficient as americans infantry with bar so please balance them
9)allow the recketwefer to turn while camo is on
10)allow the lelg18 to retreat
11)allow okw to have the mg34 unlock at the beginning of the game like other faction
12)modify the british universal carriers and russian reconaissance vehicle because are too hard to kill in early game and give a easy win, the kubelwagen badly underperforms compared to them


So in other words you suck playing OST and OKW?
17 Mar 2020, 23:10 PM
#28
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 23:02 PMCODGUY


So in other words you suck playing OST and OKW?


How does that differ from you and USF exactly? I’m very curious.
17 Mar 2020, 23:19 PM
#29
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7



How does that differ from you and USF exactly? I’m very curious.

Takes one to know one.
18 Mar 2020, 00:08 AM
#30
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 418

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 18:25 PMedo

9)allow the recketwefer to turn while camo is on


I'd give it a 80-20 this is a troll post.
edo
18 Mar 2020, 09:43 AM
#31
avatar of edo

Posts: 31



Impossible, every noob who makes a balance complaint thread has already mastered the game entirely and isn't at Level 20 on the ladder simply because the game isn't balanced and he and only he suffers the most from it and his unusual skill isn't recognized.

This is 1 billion percent the way they think and will never admit it.


I thought about these post for long time, i made this after 1300 hours of game, got all okw commanders, all american and british ones, and almost all of wermarcht ones, i'm 2 stars colonel atm
But simply is unacceptable that 2 sturmpioneers squads get wiped out by 1 shocktroop squad (without grandes), that a conscript squad can kill a volks squad, that a sdfkz250 with panzergranadiers can't kill a 1 low helts shocktroop retreating behing chased for half map. The british vickers is the only mg that at vet 2 gets permanently piercing rounds
MOST THINGS HAVE BEEN ALSO TESTES IN THE CHEAT MOD
edo
18 Mar 2020, 09:54 AM
#32
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

Instead of playing always allays try to play okw or ostheer before giving me noob or salty looser, than come back. Yesterday in a match a penal squad didn't get pinned down when i was shooting them in the face with a captured vickers inside a building
18 Mar 2020, 10:46 AM
#33
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 09:54 AMedo
Instead of playing allies always try to play okw or ostheer before giving me noob or salty looser, than come back.


I'm back

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198021567998
18 Mar 2020, 10:49 AM
#34
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7

Someone made a big oof.
edo
18 Mar 2020, 10:57 AM
#35
avatar of edo

Posts: 31

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 19:19 PMmaahowl


Don't forget that they never play the OP faction because it's too easy and they want a challenge and if they were to play the OP faction they would already be at the top, but they will not do it. Like, ever.


i've play every faction and i'm not a nerd like you that spends the whole day in the game to master every faction, second you can master 1 faction at once to all, think before talking
18 Mar 2020, 11:17 AM
#36
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3960 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 10:57 AMedo


i've play every faction and i'm not a nerd like you that spends the whole day in the game to master every faction, second you can master 1 faction at once to all, think before talking

The best way to master a faction is to understand it from both sides. Knowing what your enemy is capable of and what their weaknesses are as well as your own by playing against it. You'll see that the bulk of the "everything allied/axis has is OP" come from single faction players because they don't understand the weaknesses of what they are fighting because they have never had them exploited against them.
One doesn't have to be a pro to be taken seriously but one does need to understand the game as a whole
18 Mar 2020, 11:31 AM
#37
avatar of maahowl

Posts: 30

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 09:43 AMedo


I thought about these post for long time, i made this after 1300 hours of game, got all okw commanders, all american and british ones, and almost all of wermarcht ones, i'm 2 stars colonel atm
But simply is unacceptable that 2 sturmpioneers squads get wiped out by 1 shocktroop squad (without grandes), that a conscript squad can kill a volks squad, that a sdfkz250 with panzergranadiers can't kill a 1 low helts shocktroop retreating behing chased for half map. The british vickers is the only mg that at vet 2 gets permanently piercing rounds
MOST THINGS HAVE BEEN ALSO TESTES IN THE CHEAT MOD


I would love to see your playercard, these are some pretty big claims.

Also, I guess I should answer your complaints, since no one did, so...


jump backJump back to quoted post17 Mar 2020, 18:25 PMedo
1)actually russian shocktroops are overperfoming being hard to kill with any kind of infantry in 2vs1 at medium close range
2)conscripts are actually more efficient than ganadiers and volksgranadiers (who's cost should be brought back to 250) so cost and efficienty of the units should be reworked
3)pioneers actually are totally useless and also theyre flamethrower deals nothing damage against enemy infantry
4)fallschirmjäger should come with all 4 fg41 equipped like before and have squad size and life increased to match other faction paratroopers, else reduce theyre cost
5)mg's need a rebalance, especially the 34 that doesn't deal enough damage and suppression like others and the maxim needs a nerf because can be placed and shot dowm a mg42 that's already shooting at it
6)assault granadiers compared to shock troops are poorly underperforming and need a rework
7)sturmpioneers actually deal a good damage but are too easy to kill making them not enough cost efficient, for 300 they should have more life or cost less
8)stg44 upgrade on volksgranadiers doesn't make them as much efficient as americans infantry with bar so please balance them
9)allow the recketwefer to turn while camo is on
10)allow the lelg18 to retreat
11)allow okw to have the mg34 unlock at the beginning of the game like other faction
12)modify the british universal carriers and russian reconaissance vehicle because are too hard to kill in early game and give a easy win, the kubelwagen badly underperforms compared to them
13)ostheer squad heal should work like british one and be free, like they make the ability for 30 ammo and can use it freely


1) shocktroops cost a massive 360 mp, and one of their main strenghts is durability. The best way to combat them are vechicles, or snipers, or staying as far away as possible at all times.
2) conscripts are actually less cost-efficient at the start of the game, they only get really good when you get the mobilize reserves upgrade (which is getting a nerf next patch anyway)
3) pioneers are actually capable of winning against any mainline infantry if they ambush them from close range (maybe except riflemen) and flamethrower is supposed to kill garrisoned/clumped up behind cover infantry
4) fallshrimjagers are already a very powerful alternative to obersoldaten with camo though and they were overperforming recently
5) mg 34 is weaker and, to compensate, costs 250 mp + has access to ap rounds that also greatly boost damage vs infantry. Also the maxim is so bad at surpressing infantry a panzergren squad can run up to it frontally and throw a nade at it, mg fights is the only time a maxim can be useful, and it's not like mg fights are a common event
6) also assault grenadiers are available at 0 cp and cost 80 mp less, a cheaper squad is supposed to lose to an expensive one that has the same role
7) you are not supposed to spam sturmpios all game as a mainline infantry replacement + they are also tasked with building mines, wire and repairing vechicles, so they shouldn't be as cost efficient as combat-only infantry
8) volksgrenadiers with stg44 cost 250 mp + 60 muni, riflemen with double bar cost 280 mp + 120 muni + needs weapon rack research while OKW unlocks upgrades with normal tech
9) raketenwerfer is already a very good AT unit (cheap, good pen, can retreat), turning WITH camo would be overkill
10) it trades mobility for firepower and accouracy, retreating would make it better than mortars in every way
11) OKW doesn't need earlygame buffs when it already is this strong early on, also OKW is supposed to have weak teamweapons
12) kubel is not made for combat, it's for recon with vet 1 maphack and is dirt cheap, against light vechicles you have sturmpios with panzershreck and raketenwerfers and pumas
13) ostheer heal also doesn't require you to upgrade your squad with munitions and is gained with vet instead of tech
edo
18 Mar 2020, 13:31 PM
#38
avatar of edo

Posts: 31



I'm back

https://www.coh2.org/ladders/playercard/steamid/76561198021567998

well from your stats you see too that your win series is way higher with russians rather than other faction, and since you play them you know how actually conscripts outperform volks and shocktroops kill everything, just played them and it's true
18 Mar 2020, 13:34 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 13:31 PMedo

well from your stats you see too that your win series is way higher with russians rather than other faction, and since you play them you know how actually conscripts outperform volks and shocktroops kill everything, just played them and it's true

That's not how it works... that's not how any of it works...
For all you know, he could have had +50 ost streak last night, then lost 1 game and won couple more.
Also, how are you going to explain that soviets are his LOWEST win ratio?

The only thing you can tell from his stats is that he is incomparably better with 5 factions then you'll ever be with 2 you play exclusively and that contrary to you, he knows what he is talking about.

So how about you take tinfoil hat off and take an advise from someone who knows better?
18 Mar 2020, 13:35 PM
#40
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Mar 2020, 13:31 PMedo

well from your stats you see too that your win series is way higher with russians rather than other faction, and since you play them you know how actually conscripts outperform volks and shocktroops kill everything, just played them and it's true


60% is higher than 67% and 61%? Huh.....the more you know...

Also nice to see that win rates are somehow important, I thought ranks mattered. Apparently not...

edit: Wait I think you mean the +15 streak.

Conscripts can outperform Volks in certain scenarios, which is totally fine, there's really no reason Volks should always dominate Conscripts. As for Shock Troops they are extremely expensive and a good light vehicle or focus fire will extract a heavy manpower toll on your opponent. Case of point I was playing a really good player a few days ago 1v1 and he went double Shocks early vs my Osttruppen build, yet using the 222 and Panzergrenadiers effectively I was able to bleed him dry and win the game relatively easily. Shocks can be very powerful but can also be catastrophic for the Soviet player due to bleed if not used properly.

My advice to you is to take a chill pill and L2P. Yes it sounds harsh but as you get experience and get better you'll find a lot of problematic aspects stop being problematic when you learn how to deal with them.
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