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russian armor

Have they considered properly balancing Panzergrenadiers?

12 Mar 2020, 02:10 AM
#1
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

Some obvious problems with this unit:

- too strong for a stock unit: so if you are playing USF they will outpreform any infantry unit you can field except for Paratroopers. They will beat Riflemen, Rangers, Cavalry Riflemen (and their available around the same time as this unit). They're also going to outpreform Conscripts (no surprise here), Penals, and give Shocks a run for their money (although these work as a decent counter if playing Soviets). Brits have now pathetic Infantry Sections so those aren't any kind of threat, and by the time Commandos hit the field they're probably at Vet 3 so they'll overpower them too. Really not much out there will kill them 1v1.

- They've got too many abilities: While they're among the best infantry in the game, they also can be equipped with the overkill double Panzerschrek upgrade. The upgrade is only 100 munitions, and before you say "that's the same price as two bazookas or PIATs", just remember panzerschreks can actually kill vehicles unlike those other two poorly preforming AT weapons. This superior AT ability combined with its low cost and more fragile allied vehicles means only two or three upgraded panzergrens will one shot a Sherman or get close. The other problem is they retain much of their AI abilities even after this upgrade. When grouped together they lay waste to tanks and infantry alike. They also still retain their bundle grenade.

- They are available too soon: this is a problem with many elite Axis infantry. I do not understand why this community thinks it necessary for Axis elite infantry to always be more assess able and available sooner than their Allied counterparts, especially the western allied factions. Upgrading a Riflemen saqud with two BARs or an Infantry Section with two Brens most certainly will NOT make these into elite infantry units.
12 Mar 2020, 02:37 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3607 | Subs: 1

pgrens out performing rangers and shocks? source?
12 Mar 2020, 02:46 AM
#3
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

pgrens out performing rangers and shocks? source?


Shocks do okay, Rangers get murdered. Has to do with the Rangers not coming until CP3 and then needing 90 munitions to upgrade to Thompsons. The PGrens are probably close to vet 3 by then.
12 Mar 2020, 02:48 AM
#4
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2930

Have you considered gitting gud
12 Mar 2020, 02:49 AM
#5
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 377 | Subs: 1

pgrens out performing rangers and shocks? source?


Source: CODGUY

'nuff said


You guys realise he literally just said "Panzergrenadiers retain too much of their anti-infantry capabilities after the Panzershreck upgrade", right?
12 Mar 2020, 03:11 AM
#6
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700



Source: CODGUY

'nuff said


You guys realise he literally just said "Panzergrenadiers retain too much of their anti-infantry capabilities after the Panzershreck upgrade", right?


3 sqauds will give you 6x Shreks and 6x Stg44s plus the bundle grenade for each of them. That is not safe to approach with anything. Paratroopers can fight them at range with M1919s and Shocks might do okay because they are 6 men and have decent armor. Everything else dies. T34s, Shermans, Cromwells, Riflemen, Cons, Infantry Sections.

With Panzerfizilers for example you've got only bolt action rifles with double schreks so their AI suffers. Panzergrens start out with and retain their StGs and bundle grenades. It's like Rangers starting out with Thompsons at CP1 with every USF doctrine.


12 Mar 2020, 03:24 AM
#7
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 418

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 03:11 AMCODGUY


3 sqauds will give you 6x Shreks and 6x Stg44s plus the bundle grenade for each of them. That is not safe to approach with anything. Paratroopers can fight them at range with M1919s and Shocks might do okay because they are 6 men and have decent armor. Everything else dies. T34s, Shermans, Cromwells, Riflemen, Cons, Infantry Sections.

With Panzerfizilers for example you've got only bolt action rifles with double schreks so their AI suffers. Panzergrens start out with and retain their StGs and bundle grenades. It's like Rangers starting out with Thompsons at CP1 with every USF doctrine.





3 shrek pgrens get stomped by 3 unupgraded cons.
12 Mar 2020, 03:31 AM
#8
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 03:24 AMSerrith



3 shrek pgrens get stomped by 3 unupgraded cons.


Riflemen don't do that why would Conscripts?
12 Mar 2020, 04:07 AM
#9
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 897

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 03:31 AMCODGUY
Riflemen don't do that why would Conscripts?


You're welcome to test it a well, but my testing shows rifles win by a lot even in absolutely awful engagements.

non-upgraded vet0 Rifles closing from max range, over neutral cover, on vet0 Schreck'd Pgrens, with zero micro -> rifles win with ~7 models.
12 Mar 2020, 04:09 AM
#10
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3962 | Subs: 1

3 upgraded panzer grens have the firepower of 1.5 pgren squads... If you can't fight of 1.5 pgren squads with your own ~1000mp and ~270mu I really really don't know what to tell you. That's nearly 4 rifles and even more Bars. This right here is exactly why nobody takes you seriously.
12 Mar 2020, 05:25 AM
#11
avatar of Sumi

Posts: 62

3 panzergrens without any shrecks are more of a problem than with shrecks. Since they can literally obliterate any SW. I don't find this unit much troublesome but yeah they do come early in HQ building as compared to earlier from the T2 building.

The problem with 3 pzgrens is that the army will bleed over time and its upkeep cost will gradually become its achilles heel. They are pretty expensive to handle and maintain. So you fight with pzgrens using time on your side.
12 Mar 2020, 09:42 AM
#12
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2638

Rangers get murdered by Pgrens. Okay. Report this for trolling?
12 Mar 2020, 11:52 AM
#13
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 02:10 AMCODGUY
Some obvious problems with this unit:

- too strong for a stock unit: so if you are playing USF they will outpreform any infantry unit you can field except for Paratroopers. They will beat Riflemen, Rangers, Cavalry Riflemen (and their available around the same time as this unit). They're also going to outpreform Conscripts (no surprise here), Penals, and give Shocks a run for their money (although these work as a decent counter if playing Soviets). Brits have now pathetic Infantry Sections so those aren't any kind of threat, and by the time Commandos hit the field they're probably at Vet 3 so they'll overpower them too. Really not much out there will kill them 1v1.

- They've got too many abilities: While they're among the best infantry in the game, they also can be equipped with the overkill double Panzerschrek upgrade. The upgrade is only 100 munitions, and before you say "that's the same price as two bazookas or PIATs", just remember panzerschreks can actually kill vehicles unlike those other two poorly preforming AT weapons. This superior AT ability combined with its low cost and more fragile allied vehicles means only two or three upgraded panzergrens will one shot a Sherman or get close. The other problem is they retain much of their AI abilities even after this upgrade. When grouped together they lay waste to tanks and infantry alike. They also still retain their bundle grenade.

- They are available too soon: this is a problem with many elite Axis infantry. I do not understand why this community thinks it necessary for Axis elite infantry to always be more assess able and available sooner than their Allied counterparts, especially the western allied factions. Upgrading a Riflemen saqud with two BARs or an Infantry Section with two Brens most certainly will NOT make these into elite infantry units.


Bro why don't you just skip the middleman and play vs easy AIs? That's what you'd be doing if anyone listened to your constant histrionic complaints.
12 Mar 2020, 12:30 PM
#14
avatar of Grining Cat

Posts: 57

Hey CODGUY,

...forget about your shitty blue units, just play the red units I say! :)


Switch to Axis! :) We have the better cookies anyway <444>3


You could rename yourself to "Hans-GUY", "Karl-GUY", "Fritz-GUY" or "Friedhelm-GUY" then.

That would be awesome, wouldn´t it?


Have a good day! :) <444>3
12 Mar 2020, 12:48 PM
#15
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 214

Mods pls close this troll thread.
12 Mar 2020, 13:05 PM
#16
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 726

I can see CODguys logic

If anyone remembered shrek and zook snipes were removed from the game because in the devs view AT squads shouldn't be dealing AI damage...

So why do penals and pgrens keep SVTs and StGs after upgrading to their AT package? This is more of an issue in 4vs4 where a small AT blob can win infantry engagements vs a normal squad or two.
12 Mar 2020, 13:09 PM
#17
avatar of Grining Cat

Posts: 57

Mods pls close this troll thread.



Who´s trolling here? I´m going to call the Kappa-Police!!

They gonna kappa-cuff any troll very soon! :)
12 Mar 2020, 13:23 PM
#18
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2190

I can see CODguys logic

If anyone remembered shrek and zook snipes were removed from the game because in the devs view AT squads shouldn't be dealing AI damage...

So why do penals and pgrens keep SVTs and StGs after upgrading to their AT package? This is more of an issue in 4vs4 where a small AT blob can win infantry engagements vs a normal squad or two.


If anyone struggles vs schreck/ptrs blob or any sort of anti-tank blob, then they must be really terrible at the game
12 Mar 2020, 13:40 PM
#19
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 400



If anyone struggles vs schreck/ptrs blob or any sort of anti-tank blob, then they must be really terrible at the game


Unless its the Guards...
12 Mar 2020, 13:47 PM
#20
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2190

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 13:40 PMJilet


Unless its the Guards...


A-move guard blobs can be painful to deal with as OKW on some maps but as Ostheer it's pretty easy I think
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