Login

russian armor

Ditch the Sherman Dozer Attachment

11 Mar 2020, 19:21 PM
#41
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3664 | Subs: 1

I feel like the HE Sherman should be equal fuel to the OST P4 at 120F. The HE Sherman is a great tank and OST P4 is probably 2nd worst above the Cromwell. nerfing it by 10F would also indirectly nerf the dozer upgrade to OKW P4 levels of fuel IIRC.
11 Mar 2020, 20:44 PM
#42
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1303

OST P4 is probably 2nd worst above the Cromwell.

It's only third, because first place was taken by T-34 with 76-mm gun, and only then goes Cromwell and OST P4. :sibWaddle:

Back to the topic. This upgrade difficult to show throw UI, and visually M4A3 Sherman easy to misrecognise with M4A3(105). Additionaly, dozer upgrade comes with two different commander abilities, which is not good as well.
I think better to change it on M4A3(105) in both commanders, where you have it, but for mech company it will means lack of M4A3(76)W.
11 Mar 2020, 20:49 PM
#43
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3664 | Subs: 1


It's only third, because first place was taken by T-34 with 76-mm gun, and only then goes Cromwell and OST P4. :sibWaddle:

Back to the topic. This upgrade difficult to show throw UI, and visually M4A3 Sherman easy to misrecognise with M4A3(105). Additionaly, dozer upgrade comes with two different commander abilities, which is not good as well.
I think better to change it on M4A3(105) in both commanders, where you have it, but for mech company it will means lack of M4A3(76)W.


Agree to disagree. I think the t34/76 for its cost is very good especially against infantry with its superb mgs. It’s pen it pretty meh but when rngesus decides you deserve death, ain’t nobody gonna convince him otherwise.
11 Mar 2020, 20:54 PM
#44
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3222

I think better to change it on M4A3(105) in both commanders, where you have it, but for mech company it will means lack of M4A3(76)W.


I'd swap it out for the 105 in Urban Assault and leave Mechanized with just the 76mm. It's a good tank when it's not being overshadowed by the 75mm Bulldozer.
11 Mar 2020, 21:08 PM
#45
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1303



Agree to disagree. I think the t34/76 for its cost is very good especially against infantry with its superb mgs. It’s pen it pretty meh but when rngesus decides you deserve death, ain’t nobody gonna convince him otherwise.


AI potential on par or lower, if compared with Sherman or P4, after patch Cromwell will be cool in that area too.

All generalist mediums are good vs infantry. But others have something else in addtition like good pen (M4A3), armor (P4), speed (P4 with vet ability), stabilisation (M4A3) or buffs throw commanders (M4A3 and P4J especially). Cromwell is like T-34, but better. It has good upgrade (accuracy and sight), vet ability (smoke) and penetration on par with other mediums.

At the same time, T-34 has nothing expect bit lower price as his own advantage.

If we speak about Sherman, it is really good without doctrines, i think it was the reason ,why it hasn't got any additions before dozer throw commanders. I don't remember the exact reason, why dozer was added in the first place. But still, this upgrade makes M4A3 into semi M4A3(105), but without 105mm gun.

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 20:54 PMLago


I'd swap it out for the 105 in Urban Assault and leave Mechanized with just the 76mm. It's a good tank when it's not being overshadowed by the 75mm Bulldozer.


Sounds like a plan :)
11 Mar 2020, 21:22 PM
#46
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3222

I don't remember the exact reason, why dozer was added in the first place. But still, this upgrade makes M4A3 into semi M4A3(105), but without 105mm gun.


I'm pretty sure it's because they figured out they could add the dozer with an upgrade, decided it was cool and added it to the game.

It's same reason we got the almost pointless rotating base structures and the T-34/76 variants with the tanks on the back.
11 Mar 2020, 22:17 PM
#47
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2480 | Subs: 1

I bought Tank Hunter tactics and the doctrine got neutered and salvage was straight up removed. Where’s my refund?


No that doctrine actually got better. AT grenade assault used to be impossible to use, it didn't even track tanks iirc. And tankhunter cons didn't have camo, detection, use to have 2 ptrs not 3 etc. Ambush tactics was given to vehicles. Howitzer replaced salvage kits

Many would say its still trash but i say its niche. That niche can be VERY strong in team games
11 Mar 2020, 22:19 PM
#48
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2810



No that doctrine actually got better. AT grenade assault used to be impossible to use, it didn't even track tanks iirc. And tankhunter cons didn't have camo, detection, use to have 2 ptrs not 3 etc. Ambush tactics was given to vehicles. Howitzer replaced salvage kits

Many would say its still trash but i say its niche. That niche can be VERY strong in team games


I accept your opinion

Doesn’t change this though:

11 Mar 2020, 22:21 PM
#49
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2480 | Subs: 1



I accept your opinion

Doesn’t change this though:


Yeah idk why they removed salvage kits. Shoulda just been merged with light AT mines imo, but maybe they felt like that was too many different things? I think the doctrine is pretty far away from being OP so idk whats up with that
12 Mar 2020, 00:07 AM
#50
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4105 | Subs: 1

I feel like the HE Sherman should be equal fuel to the OST P4 at 120F. The HE Sherman is a great tank and OST P4 is probably 2nd worst above the Cromwell. nerfing it by 10F would also indirectly nerf the dozer upgrade to OKW P4 levels of fuel IIRC.


I feel like HE should be a timed ability instead of a shell swap and hvap should have been a shell swap instead of a timed ability... Would have helped balance both of those abilities/units without overshadowing other units...
12 Mar 2020, 01:00 AM
#51
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7209 | Subs: 1



Yeah idk why they removed salvage kits. Shoulda just been merged with light AT mines imo, but maybe they felt like that was too many different things? I think the doctrine is pretty far away from being OP so idk whats up with that


Nothing of value was lost after the last nerf and adjustments. It still needs a re-pass casue "all" vehicle wrecks start at 50% and some things can't be salvaged or they can and shouldn't.
12 Mar 2020, 03:03 AM
#52
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 700

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Mar 2020, 23:50 PMLago
This came up in the shoutbox, and should probably be addressed.

The 1.3 patch came with a clever change for medium tanks: reduced target size, making them all a bit more survivable. Specialist vehicles like the Firefly and the Sherman Bulldozer did not receive this buff: they've got extra range/health/armour already.

But this is also a buff to an upgrade that should never have existed in the first place: the Bulldozer Attachment for the basic Sherman.

For those who don't know, you spend a little fuel and lose a little mobility. In return, the basic 76mm Sherman gets premium medium's armour and can take an extra 160 damage AT hit, which lets it handily beat enemy mediums.

The existence of this thing undermines every other premium medium in the USF lineup. It's got all the durability and utility of the 106 Sherman Bulldozer, but keeps its AT capability. It beats Panzer IVs as handily as a 76mm or Easy Eight, but unlike those two gets to keep its HE rounds. If you go Urban Assault, it gets the Comet's White Phosphorus too.

This is like looking at OKW Mechanized and deciding it needs a 70 FU vehicle with the Luchs' AI, the Puma's AT, and the ability to frontally wipe ATGs. It's an awful design.



At a bare minimum, teching the dozer upgrade should revert the Sherman's target size to 23. There's no justification for this thing having a better target size than the 105 when it gets to steal its armour and health.

Better still, remove this thing from the game entirely. Mechanized really doesn't need it, and Urban Assault can have the thematically appropriate and sadly overused Sherman 105.


All of these points are so laughably bad and easily deconstructed I don't even know where to begin.


Lets start with using correct terminology first. You're referring to the non-docrinal M4A3 75mm Sherman getting the doctrinal dozer blade upgrade found on the also doctribal 105mm Sherman. The doctrinal 76mm Sherman doesn't get this upgrade. There is no 106mm Sherman.

The upgrade probably brings it on par with a standard Wehrmacht Panzer IV, with the Pamzer IV having a better gun while the dozer Sherman has better armor and health. The cost of the Dozer Sherman exceeds that of the OST P4. The vehicle is still greatly inferior to the OKW P4J as well as a Vet 2 OST P4. It is simply no match for a Panther which goes without saying, and neither is any USF vehicle besides the Pershing and even that is 50/50.

The AP/HE shell mechanic is inferior to the P4's main gun being effective against all targets without the need to waste time switching ammo. This is especially true for the P4J.

The Dozer Sherman, like any Sherman, is easily countered by properly placed AT guns or Stugs, and also any double Shreck sqauds out there.

It's rather amusing to see people have trouble against this little tank with it's little dozer blade.
12 Mar 2020, 03:54 AM
#53
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 820

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2020, 16:46 PMLago


The 75mm Sherman bulldozer isn't a unit either. It's an upgrade for a unit. And if those count, where are the Penal Trooper flamers I paid for?


If premium Shermans having HE is fine, then the Easy Eight and 76mm should get it too. Anyone who suggests this as a serious option belongs on the Steam Forums.

If premium Shermans having HE is not fine, then the 75mm Bulldozer shouldn't have it.


It is effectively a different unit.

You yourself even admit it's different by complaining about a tiny bit of extra health and armor that the regular Sherman doesn't have.

Again if you're losing tanks to one of the slowest premium meds with the worst pen profile the issue here lies between the chair and the keyboard. Try something other than charging ost P4s against it like you can vs a t34/76.
12 Mar 2020, 11:16 AM
#54
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2428 | Subs: 5

12 Mar 2020, 14:37 PM
#56
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3222

nvm


nuuu dont leave meee share your wisdom
12 Mar 2020, 16:37 PM
#57
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7209 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 14:37 PMLago


nuuu dont leave meee share your wisdom


He took the wise decision of why and who to argue with.
12 Mar 2020, 17:08 PM
#58
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2480 | Subs: 1

I feel like the HE Sherman should be equal fuel to the OST P4 at 120F. The HE Sherman is a great tank and OST P4 is probably 2nd worst above the Cromwell.


US has to spend 175fu minimum to unlock sherman, Ost has to spend 145fu minimum to unlock p4. That's gotta be a big reason Sherman is cheaper cause I agree it's better than the ost p4

12 Mar 2020, 17:10 PM
#59
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 441

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2020, 03:03 AMCODGUY


All of these points are so laughably bad and easily deconstructed I don't even know where to begin.


Lets start with using correct terminology first. You're referring to the non-docrinal M4A3 75mm Sherman getting the doctrinal dozer blade upgrade found on the also doctribal 105mm Sherman. The doctrinal 76mm Sherman doesn't get this upgrade. There is no 106mm Sherman.

The upgrade probably brings it on par with a standard Wehrmacht Panzer IV, with the Pamzer IV having a better gun while the dozer Sherman has better armor and health. The cost of the Dozer Sherman exceeds that of the OST P4. The vehicle is still greatly inferior to the OKW P4J as well as a Vet 2 OST P4. It is simply no match for a Panther which goes without saying, and neither is any USF vehicle besides the Pershing and even that is 50/50.

The AP/HE shell mechanic is inferior to the P4's main gun being effective against all targets without the need to waste time switching ammo. This is especially true for the P4J.

The Dozer Sherman, like any Sherman, is easily countered by properly placed AT guns or Stugs, and also any double Shreck sqauds out there.

It's rather amusing to see people have trouble against this little tank with it's little dozer blade.


Nitpicking of typing error. Really?
12 Mar 2020, 17:54 PM
#60
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Yea I think the tank is fine and its in a doctrine.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Ostheer flag Reto.GarGamel
  • The British Forces flag °NOOBMarkov.-
uploaded by Augustine

Board Info

127 users are online: 4 members and 123 guests
TSUSUN, tightrope, CobaltX105, serg_codmod
57 posts in the last 24h
693 posts in the last week
3917 posts in the last month
Registered members: 24924
Welcome our newest member, eom1
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM