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Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

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20 Mar 2020, 15:27 PM
#281
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279





"Because the ability is here since day 1"

????

you just proved my point, its an extremely outdated ability. Almost every single unit since then has gained major changes in abilities because they just simply dont fit the game anymore. abilities that are free and require zero user input should be in this category.

Conveniently ignores the "Because nobody but the scrubbiest find it an issue after half a decade of being mostly unchanged"
20 Mar 2020, 15:27 PM
#282
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8




Passive amplifications/buffs of a unit are something different then a unit being micro'd by an a.i. in a multiplayer game

How's that different to autofire mortars that barrage you constantly?

A storm in a glass of water, that's all this discussion is.
20 Mar 2020, 15:30 PM
#283
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139


Conveniently ignores the "Because nobody but the scrubbiest find it an issue after half a decade of being mostly unchanged"



Yeah because toggling a auto counter is so balanced. so much skill holy shit. only the true elite 2v2 and 1v1 community can know whats best for the game
20 Mar 2020, 15:32 PM
#284
avatar of lolgastie

Posts: 9

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 15:27 PMKatitof

How's that different to autofire mortars that barrage you constantly?

A storm in a glass of water, that's all this discussion is.



Yes an mid to lategame commander based expensive unit is different then a 240 manpower early game unit.
20 Mar 2020, 15:32 PM
#285
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 15:30 PMTheMux2



Yeah because toggling a auto counter is so balanced. so much skill holy shit. only the true elite 2v2 and 1v1 community can know whats best for the game


LOOK A MINE! SO MUCH SKILL! YOU JUST CLICK AND ITS THERE! YOU NEED A SPECIFIC UNIT AND AN SPECIFIC UPGRADE AND MICRO TO REMOVE IT! NO COUNTER! MINES SHOULD REQUIRE MORE MICRO NOT JUST STNAD THERE AND BLOW MY UNITS WHEN I WALK OVER ONE!

That's you.
20 Mar 2020, 15:42 PM
#286
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

What's funny in your discussion is, except for Katitof, the same people arguing that the pakhowi should be nerfed because its too lethal for a minimal input are defending the Axis unit doing the same.

Continue like that guys, you're the best.
20 Mar 2020, 15:49 PM
#287
avatar of TheMux2

Posts: 139

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 15:42 PMEsxile
What's funny in your discussion is, except for Katitof, the same people arguing that the pakhowi should be nerfed because its too lethal for a minimal input are defending the Axis unit doing the same.

Continue like that guys, you're the best.


yeah it amazes me that this forum is used for balance imput. but oh wel its allied so better nerf it
20 Mar 2020, 16:23 PM
#288
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 15:42 PMEsxile
What's funny in your discussion is, except for Katitof, the same people arguing that the pakhowi should be nerfed because its too lethal for a minimal input are defending the Axis unit doing the same.

Continue like that guys, you're the best.

Likley has something to do with the lack of fuel cost AND large AOE AND same AUTOFIRE range as other mortars PLUS the superior barrage.
These knobs are arguing about an ability with a cool down and now you are comparing it to something that pumps out wipes all game long with no input...

AUTOFIRE=/= counter barrage. If you are lacking the mental capacity to understand that I'm not even sure how you managed to even navigate this far into a forum.

Every unit with a problematic AUTO FIRE has been nerfed. 120mm, mortar pit, literally all mortars actually... All while this ABILITY that BARRAGES a single area every now and again (not this is not a constant bleed, like AUTO FIRE)
20 Mar 2020, 16:27 PM
#289
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Counterbarrage is OP. Okay. We learn something new every day.

Like I said, make "premium" threads where random dudes can't troll and the feedback will be better. Look at the last 20 posts and tell me this is productive and you learn new things by reading them.
20 Mar 2020, 16:48 PM
#290
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 15:17 PMTheMux2

...


I don't understand the problem. It simply shoots in the direction of first auto- or barrag-fire. Comparing it with old fuk-ability of soviets mortar or arty is a bad try.

If you simply move your arty the hole barrage will go into a bad target.
20 Mar 2020, 16:50 PM
#291
avatar of Support Sapper

Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1

Give back mortar pit old toggle counter battery, it should be fine by then.
20 Mar 2020, 17:55 PM
#292
avatar of OrangePest

Posts: 568 | Subs: 1

Imo i think counterbarrage should be removed and have something more interesting and interactive added, maybe something like heavy mortar round barrage for ostheer mortar (giving it the 120 rounds or something for a single barrage) or creeping smoke.

for Howtizers maybe something like overwatch where itll target an area for 30 seconds and barrage things that enter? (could be OP though, mostly just spitballing so no real balance involved.)
20 Mar 2020, 18:09 PM
#293
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I will leave all comments up but open a new thread to discuss counter barrage. Any comment further will be invis.
21 Mar 2020, 15:08 PM
#294
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 06:49 AMmrgame2


It is cheap it is fast and it has buffed target size.
Stugg is very annoying to my FF.


Too voulnerable to infantry AND enemy TDs due to lower range tan most TD.
21 Mar 2020, 15:14 PM
#295
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2020, 06:50 AMmrgame2


Well said brother.
There was too much ost whiners and they got a win with needless brumbar buff

I'm all for Brum armour buff. At the moment it doesn't seem to be real last tier unit that is very micro intensive and quite too fragile for the moment it appears on the field.
21 Mar 2020, 16:41 PM
#296
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


I'm all for Brum armour buff. At the moment it doesn't seem to be real last tier unit that is very micro intensive and quite too fragile for the moment it appears on the field.


The problem with Brummbär is, that it shouldn't be a non-doc unit. It should be buffed more and become a call-in like Tiger or Elefant. StuG E should become the regular assault-arty.
21 Mar 2020, 16:56 PM
#297
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



The problem with Brummbär is, that it shouldn't be a non-doc unit. It should be buffed more and become a call-in like Tiger or Elefant. StuG E should become the regular assault-arty.

It would have been a fine stock unit if the spirit of t4was kept. T4was supposed to be a siege breaking tier. Powerful units that you can tech up to and roll out when the game grinds to a draw. The problem is they wanted these siege breaker units to be more accessible and stupidly, an alternative to the standard units so Concessions had to be made. Disregard for design considerations make balance redesigns a messy ordeal.
21 Mar 2020, 17:35 PM
#298
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


It would have been a fine stock unit if the spirit of t4was kept. T4was supposed to be a siege breaking tier. Powerful units that you can tech up to and roll out when the game grinds to a draw. The problem is they wanted these siege breaker units to be more accessible and stupidly, an alternative to the standard units so Concessions had to be made. Disregard for design considerations make balance redesigns a messy ordeal.


With last commander-revamp we missed some possibilities, but I think we get some chances in futur for some revamp too. StuG E and Brummbär got so many changes in last years, maybe it would be time to make some intern tests to see what it will bring to change them with each other. Maybe move Ostwind in T4 instead and StuG E into T3 etc.

There are some things I would like to test with community, Ostheer is my love-fraction ^^
a. bringing back 221 for Ostheer, make 222 more expensive but more powerful to fill the gap of light/medium or make it a seperate more expensive unit.
b. make StuG E a non-doc T3 unit, to fill the gap of long-range AI on non-urban maps.
c. make Brummbär a commander-vehicle, a real unique unit.
d. make Ostwind a T4 unit, with larger focus on AA.

+ some smaller changes

But I also have many ideas for other fractions too. :P

Main-thing is to have a huge repertoire.
21 Mar 2020, 17:51 PM
#299
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2


It would have been a fine stock unit if the spirit of t4was kept. T4was supposed to be a siege breaking tier. Powerful units that you can tech up to and roll out when the game grinds to a draw. The problem is they wanted these siege breaker units to be more accessible and stupidly, an alternative to the standard units so Concessions had to be made. Disregard for design considerations make balance redesigns a messy ordeal.


Well, it doesn't help that OKW got an accessible PV as well, which means that both should had similar general base stats.
21 Mar 2020, 18:23 PM
#300
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 1351

I'd give new Brum a try and we'll see.

What do you think of making USF pay minuitions for overdrive ability on their half-track?
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