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Winter balance mod 2020 V1.3

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9 Mar 2020, 19:10 PM
#1
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6796 | Subs: 1

Official changelog
https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/287540#Comment_287540


Donwload link
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1976938113


Version 1.3 Changes

Generalist Medium Tanks

In order to make generalist medium tanks more viable in the current meta, their durability is being increased by lowering their target size, making them more difficult to hit.

These changes should reduce the chance to get hit by 7-10% on medium to far range - ex: an 88% chance to get hit becomes an 80% chance.

The changes will not apply to Tank Destroyers and specialist vehicles based on a medium tank chassis. Units like the Sherman Firefly and Sherman 105mm will remain the same due to their role.


Panzer IV, Panzer IV Command Tank, and Panzer IV J

Target size from 22 to 20

Sherman M4A3, Sherman M4A3 (76), Sherman M4A3E8

Target size from 23 to 21

T34/76 and T34/85

Target size from 22 to 20

Cromwell

Because of the above changes, the Cromwell is losing its target size advantage over other medium tanks. This is being compensated with a boost to its MGs to allow the tank to better combat infantry.

MG cooldown duration from 2/3 to 2/2.5
MG far cooldown from 1.5 to 1
MG mid cooldown from 1 to 0.85
MG far accuracy from 0.35 to 0.4
MG mid accuracy from 0.55 to 0.575

USF

M36 Jackson

In order to make the Jackson more vulnerable to medium tanks when caught out of position, its armor has be decreased.

Armor from 130 to 110


Pershing

Similar to the IS-2 and the Tiger, the Pershing will receive a small adjustment to its near AOE damage, reducing the likelyhood that it will kill multiple infantry models with a single shot.

AOE damage near from 1/0.4/0.175 to 0.75/0.4/0.175
AOE distance from 0.25/1.5/3.25 to 0/1/3.25

Ostheer

Grenadiers

Due to new changes, we are removing the reduced reinforce cost on Grenadiers. See Heavy Panzer Korps changes below for more details.

Reinforcement cost from 28 to 30

Tigers (All Variants)

The Tiger got quite a few adjustments that were deemed necessary to remove some of its somewhat oppressive performance. To compensate, we are granting the Tiger a bonus to its turret traverse speed at veterancy 2, something it lacked due to its previous scatter bonus which has now been removed.

Veterancy 2 now adds +30% turret traverse speed

Heavy Panzer Korps

In an attempt to increase the power of Ostheer's late game without increasing the power of its units, we are giving the structure a passive bonus for the army. This will reward players for teching to T4 and allow Ostheer to be more aggressive by reducing the bleed on core infantry units. The increased capture speed should also allow Ostheer players to retake sections of the map more quickly in the late game.

Now provides reduces the reinforce cost of Pioneers, Grenadiers, and Osttruppen by 2
Reduces the reinforce cost of all team weapons by 10%
Increases the capture and decapture rate of all Ostheer infantry units by 25%

OKW

Command Tiger

The Tiger got quite a few adjustments that were deemed necessary to remove some of its somewhat oppressive performance. To compensate, we are granting the Tiger a bonus to its turret traverse speed at veterancy 2, something it lacked due to its previous scatter bonus which has now been removed.

To make up for the removal of the Panzer Commander upgrade, we are removing one of the penalties of the 'Command Tiger' ability to encourage the use of this ability.


Veterancy 2 now adds +30% turret traverse speed
Command Tiger accuracy penalty during 'Command Tiger'ability removed

Panzerfusiliers

The increased range to AT Grenades from veterancy 2 made it too difficult to kite against Panzerfusiliers and gave them too much range against most vehicles when combined with their 5 to 6 man squad. This is being addressed. Furthermore, units will now callout Panzerfusilier grenades that are being thrown.

Veterancy 2 AT Grenade range boost removed
Fixed an issue where Panzerfusilier Grenades did not have a callout/warning when thrown.

Sturmtiger

Due to all the recent changes to all heavy tanks, the previously established restriction of mutual exclusion with the Tiger II has been removed.

Can now be called in if the Tiger II has already been deployed (or vice versa)

IR HT

The overhauled Infrared Searchlight Halftrack is getting slightly more sight range to make it easier and less vulnerable to use on the front line.

Sight range when set-up from 70 to 80

Soviets

Conscripts

In order to slightly reduce strength of the Mobilize Reserve upgrade, the reinforcement reduction has been slightly lowered.

Mobilize Reserve reinforce reduction from 3 to 2; changes reinforce cost from 17 to 18
9 Mar 2020, 19:18 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2037

Nice to see my crusade for medium tank target size reduction being implemented. I spent months saying it was the best solution to protect mediums from tank destroyers.
9 Mar 2020, 19:22 PM
#3
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1895

Plenty of good changes. First version of this patch that makes sense to me.
9 Mar 2020, 19:26 PM
#4
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

sad to see that i'll actually might have to respect the cromwell.
9 Mar 2020, 19:27 PM
#5
9 Mar 2020, 19:32 PM
#6
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 597



Always appreciate your work mod team, wasnt not happy about the first versions of the patch though.
1.3 looks like a real deal now. There is almost nothing i dislike.
Keep on the good work!
9 Mar 2020, 20:22 PM
#7
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 487

I hope to see Soviet reinforcement reduction change like Ost new ability,unlock mobilize reserve reduce Consript and Penal and weapon group 10% reinforcement cost
And never fix Fusiller panzerschreck upgrade bug?
9 Mar 2020, 20:31 PM
#8
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 794

Over-all, some good changes.

Generalist Medium Tanks


This is a great step forward. My only question is to why the Sherman variants are at 21, compared to 20 for everything else; it's a 5% difference in target size, which I can't see making all that much of a difference. On the other hand, this might just reflect me wanting things to be 'standardized'.

Cromwell


Considering UKF infantry sections are already fantastic against infantry, and considering the power of the Centaur, why was increasing the Cromwell's AI power the compensation selected? I would think either better AT power, or some other bonus would fit better.

M36 Jackson



A nice change that was brought up a few months ago (P4 will have a 0% chance to bounce), but as I said in that thread, it won't fix the over-all problem. I really think more needs to be done; possibly "splitting" the M36 into two separate units, one good against mediums, another good against heavies.

Heavy Panzer Korps


This is an interesting change, but I still don't think it'll fix the "T4 is ignored" problem. Now players will build T4, since its cheap and gives bonuses; but they won't actually build T4 units most of the time.

Additionally, after some quick testing, I found that the capture/decapture bonus stacks with multiple T4 buildings (but not the reinforcement bonuses). This can be pretty hilarious, especially when combined with 'counterattack tactics', as a gren squad can neutralize and then capture a point in a fraction of a second. Example video.

I know it's completely impractical to build multiple T4 buildings, but it is a bug.

Panzerfusiliers


Excellent change; this was exceedingly annoying to play against. It also didn't make much sense.


IR HT


Maybe I missed it before, but the search light doesn't turn anymore, and the 'cone' thing doesn't alert the enemy, either. This is pretty much ideal in terms of implementation, imo. Great work.

Conscripts


Also a good change, imo. It'll require a fair bit of testing, combined with the earlier changes, to see if this works, though.
9 Mar 2020, 20:40 PM
#9
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1233 | Subs: 2


Considering UKF infantry sections are already fantastic against infantry, and considering the power of the Centaur, why was increasing the Cromwell's AI power the compensation selected? I would think either better AT power, or some other bonus would fit better.


Good point, it will overshadow Centaur even more now (except if you need AA).
9 Mar 2020, 20:56 PM
#10
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2197 | Subs: 6

Good point, it will overshadow Centaur even more now (except if you need AA).


The new MGs are on the same level as an upgraded P4 (far DPS from ~3.3 to ~5.3 per MG).
So really nothing fancy, but a bit more reliable.
9 Mar 2020, 20:57 PM
#11
avatar of Lady Xenarra

Posts: 53

Does the Command Panther still lock out the KT in this update?
9 Mar 2020, 21:05 PM
#12
avatar of JPA32

Posts: 12

The Cromwell having better AI is nice for when it first comes out, but I fail to see how you're going to answer a P4 when it takes your Cromwell and german suplexes it into sheet metal. Especially now that both P4 variants just got a buff vs the Cromwell (via target size) which they both already dunked on pretty hard to begin with.
9 Mar 2020, 21:24 PM
#13
avatar of Stark

Posts: 582 | Subs: 1



Heavy Panzer Korp
Do you consider adding a side upgrade in here? I mean with 1.1 changes T4 doesn't have fuel requirement so maybe good to add symbolic cost to it like 50 mp and 20 fuel or 100 ammo to unlock the bonuses?
Decapture/capture rate of 25% is quite fast imo, smaller value would be more safe i would say.

IR HT
That unit needs something more than just a sight range. Something to refresh it. Crazy high vision would make it from useless to overpower and abusive. Adding a side features and abilities unlock with vet system would be the most reasonable. Therefore you could spread that extra +10 range in later stage of the game.

UKF
With all IS changes, adding airlanding officer, cromwell changes it's important to test faction more and more to avoid making it overperforming again. Maybe i will repreat but adding a weapon slot for a side upgrades for Tommies (med and pyro) should help with late game 2xbren abusement.
9 Mar 2020, 21:59 PM
#14
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2129 | Subs: 1

Love the ostheer t4 changes in this version, but why are we still reducing costs if we're adding stuff?

I don't understand the need to restructure and reduce the tech costs if we're also increasing the value of what you're getting
9 Mar 2020, 22:09 PM
#15
avatar of Kubelecer

Posts: 403

Those Ost T4 bonuses won't last, especially the cap/decap bonus. That thing is a nightmare to balance and has no place to be there in the first place.

Also devs balancing based on 500 reply coh2.org thread that got forgotten the moment it fell off with forum list with no basis in reality makes me worry
9 Mar 2020, 22:10 PM
#16
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 794

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Mar 2020, 21:24 PMStark
Decapture/capture rate of 25% is quite fast imo, smaller value would be more safe i would say.


Love the ostheer t4 changes in this version, but why are we still reducing costs if we're adding stuff?

I don't understand the need to restructure and reduce the tech costs if we're also increasing the value of what you're getting


Both are pretty good points. Even when ignoring the bug, why is the capture rate being added at all? It seems like a pretty arbitrary, and unnecessary, buff. It could likely be removed without any other changes, and the reduction in overall buffs could then justify the lower price. As is, I have a feeling T4 will simply turn into a "buff building", with little other purpose.

IR HT
That unit needs something more than just a sight range. Something to refresh it. Crazy high vision would make it from useless to overpower and abusive. Adding a side features and abilities unlock with vet system would be the most reasonable. Therefore you could spread that extra +10 range in later stage of the game.


Perhaps adding a "mark target" ability (with muni cost) could be interesting. As for vet, I'm not sure if that's the best path to take. Considering the IRHT can't deal any damage, vetting it entirely through shared vet might take ages.
9 Mar 2020, 22:11 PM
#17
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2037

I'd just replace the IR HT with the Ostheer 250 HT.
9 Mar 2020, 22:21 PM
#18
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2197 | Subs: 6

why is the capture rate being added at all?


The idea is that because Ostheer is significantly more vulnerable to late game wipes due to small squad sizes, a passive capture rate buff should help compensate their field presence a bit.
9 Mar 2020, 22:35 PM
#19
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 193



The idea is that because Ostheer is significantly more vulnerable to late game wipes due to small squad sizes, a passive capture rate buff should help compensate their field presence a bit.

This!.
9 Mar 2020, 22:36 PM
#20
avatar of Leo251

Posts: 193

Those Ost T4 bonuses won't last, especially the cap/decap bonus. That thing is a nightmare to balance and has no place to be there in the first place.

Also devs balancing based on 500 reply coh2.org thread that got forgotten the moment it fell off with forum list with no basis in reality makes me worry

OK. Then add a 5th model to Grens and PGrens to compensate.
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