Early in the game's life, Relic developed a habit of doing little quick fixes for balance problems rather than fixing the core issues. Ostheer T0 a bit weak? Give Pios a load of extra sight so they spot for HMG42s. OKW's early game a little lacking? Let them upgrade in enemy territory. UKF handing out Vickers LMGs to Conscripts? Reduce Conscript weapon slots.
They all seem individually harmless, but when you add several years of them all together they make for a rather counterintuitive, mechanically unpredicatable game.
Maybe it's time to clean up a bit?
Should the balance team take a sweep through the old patch notes and decide which of these tweaks actually make the game better, and which are rotting band-aids the game doesn't need any more?
Strange Old Buffs
7 Mar 2020, 14:05 PM
#1
Posts: 3260
7 Mar 2020, 14:16 PM
#2
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Pio sight is fine imo, since they promote synergy, without it Pioneers simply are not worth the their cost since they would be inferior to other units of their type.
But check things like:
Penal satchels and how they ended up doing engine damage.
(Or penal in general how they end having both high base stat, great vet bonuses and free PTRS/snare access)
WC-51 ending up with great DPS/range and lot of utility.
But check things like:
Penal satchels and how they ended up doing engine damage.
(Or penal in general how they end having both high base stat, great vet bonuses and free PTRS/snare access)
WC-51 ending up with great DPS/range and lot of utility.
7 Mar 2020, 14:18 PM
#3
Posts: 306
Certainly okw shoudnt be able to upgrate in enemy territory. This aint no balance change but a consistency one.
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7 Mar 2020, 14:32 PM
#4
Posts: 3260
Pio sight is fine imo, since they promote synergy.
Perhaps it should be a standard feature of engineers then? It's odd that just Pios have it.
WC-51 ending up with great DPS/range and lot of utility.
While I think that's a separate issue (the previous patch team refusing to remove anything and making a fair few unholy frankenunits crafted from the discarded remains of canned commander abilities) it should definitely lose Mark Target and the 155mm artillery.
It doesn't need them and they don't make thematic sense either.
7 Mar 2020, 14:36 PM
#5
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Perhaps it should be a standard feature of engineers then? It's odd that just Pios have it.
I don't think so, other engineer units are far more cost efficient and OStheer are about synergy and combined arms. (although currently USF easily compete with them).
If one continues down this road of closing the gap in Ostheer support weapon superiority one would be forced to buff their infatry more.
7 Mar 2020, 15:01 PM
#6
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I would add here the commando sprint buff that was probably created because it seems that there was a though of allowing them to use knifes...And that later find it way in the sprint/camo Ostheer combo.
7 Mar 2020, 15:02 PM
#7
Posts: 3260
I would add here the commando sprint buff that was probably created because it seems that there was a though of allowing them to use knifes...
I'm not proposing a total overhaul here.
I'm proposing the balance team read through the changelog and revert any band-aids they think are no longer to the benefit of the game.
7 Mar 2020, 15:11 PM
#8
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I'm not proposing a total overhaul here.
I'm proposing the balance team read through the changelog and revert any band-aids they think are no longer to the benefit of the game.
Adjusting the first strike bonuses to closer to other first strike bonuses is not an overhaul in my opinion. It is removing things that make little senses and are not beneficial to the game.
7 Mar 2020, 15:21 PM
#9
Posts: 3260
Adjusting the first strike bonuses to closer to other first strike bonuses is not an overhaul in my opinion. It is removing things that make little senses and are not beneficial to the game.
Very possibly, but as far as I know it's not on topic.
7 Mar 2020, 18:07 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The upgrade thingy on OKW i think it's there since release. Which could easily be removed.
Pios with extra sight are fine.
Cons weapon slot. I would ask, what's the benefit of making a rollback.
Dodge: no strong opinion in either side.
Penals: i have said that the upgrades and abilities should require the research on the HQ.
Bring other examples.
Pios with extra sight are fine.
Cons weapon slot. I would ask, what's the benefit of making a rollback.
Dodge: no strong opinion in either side.
Penals: i have said that the upgrades and abilities should require the research on the HQ.
Bring other examples.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 18:10 PM
#11
Posts: 3260
The upgrade thingy on OKW i think it's there since release. Which could easily be removed.
Nope. It was patched in in the same patch as the flame nade.
7 Mar 2020, 18:10 PM
#12
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
...
Penals: i have said that the upgrades and abilities should require the research on the HQ.
....
I was also referring on how the satchel ended up in causing engine damage for no good reason.
7 Mar 2020, 18:10 PM
#13
Posts: 3260
I was also referring on how the satchel ended up in causing engine damage for no good reason
It causes Engine Damage because it's a snare.
7 Mar 2020, 18:12 PM
#14
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
It causes Engine Damage because it's a snare.
I am not talking about AT satchel (that should also not cause engine damage with 1 shot either), I am talking about the normal satchel that is not a snare.
7 Mar 2020, 18:18 PM
#15
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Nope. It was patched in in the same patch as the flame nade.
Infantry Squad Upgrades
Ease of use change
All squad upgrades are able to be upgraded out of territory.
IIRC Volks and SP could do so. Not sure about Obers or doctrinal infantry. But Obers were later changed to need to buy their LMG34 which might had been forgotten to be changed to be equal as other OKW units.
I was also referring on how the satchel ended up in causing engine damage for no good reason.
Ahh the normal one, yeah. Maybe because it's the same "file" and the upgrade only gives it homing capabilities.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
7 Mar 2020, 18:33 PM
#16
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
Ahh the normal one, yeah. Maybe because it's the same "file" and the upgrade only gives it homing capabilities.
Well they could simply make the AT one share the Cav one file and fix the normal snare.
(and replace the engine damage with temporary snare while they are changing it).
9 Mar 2020, 14:10 PM
#17
Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1
I guess that with the changes to mortars, sniper HP can go back to 80.
10 Mar 2020, 14:45 PM
#18
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
I guess that with the changes to mortars, sniper HP can go back to 80.
Allied sniper, Axis snipers, or all of them?
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
10 Mar 2020, 16:54 PM
#19
Posts: 959
[...]they make for a rather counterintuitive, mechanically unpredicatable game.
Maybe it's time to clean up a bit?
In general, the entire game desperately needs a 'clean up and polish' pass. There are so many inconsistencies that even for veteran players, some interactions can be surprising.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
10 Mar 2020, 17:00 PM
#20
Posts: 868 | Subs: 5
In general, the entire game desperately needs a 'clean up and polish' pass. There are so many inconsistencies that even for veteran players, some interactions can be surprising.
* After so many changes left, right, center, and then down, yea, it needs a total clean and polish.
It needs recoding. It's 32 Bits! The Spaghetti Code is bad. Also, we want side armor on tanks
People complain the Soviets are useless.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
Well, they are useless if you fight your units 1vs1. But they are all about Synergy.
What do I care if you have a Panther? Once you are crippled from running over a mine
I wait until you repair it with your 3x SturmPioneers and tell my 3x Mortars to fire at it.
did you know Vet 1 Mortars get FLARE?!
- 900 Manpower down the drain. - Panther still can't move worth a damn.
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