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Assault Guards M5 HT

Should the M5 half track be removed from the Guards assault group call-in ability?
Option Distribution Votes
59%
41%
Total votes: 34
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
18 Feb 2020, 19:59 PM
#1
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 177

While the bundle of the an M5 + guards is far cheaper than these units would separately cost, ending up having 2-3 M5 HTs is not very favourable imo. Personally I would rather pay munitions for the thompsons, similar to how normal guards pay for their lmgs, over paying fuel each time I want to deploy assault guards.
18 Feb 2020, 20:01 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2062

Keep the bundle as is, but code it so if you have this doctrine after the bundle is unlocked you can build the Assault Guards for a 340/360mp cost at your T4 building.
18 Feb 2020, 20:04 PM
#3
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 177

That would be a good solution too, but afaik it's not possible to make an ability slot a call-in and a passive too at the same time.
18 Feb 2020, 20:12 PM
#4
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2062

That would be a good solution too, but afaik it's not possible to make an ability slot a call-in and a passive too at the same time.


Lend lease has the conscript repair kit passive. Could give it T4 assault guards without mentioning in the text.
18 Feb 2020, 20:21 PM
#5
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 177



Lend lease has the conscript repair kit passive. Could give it T4 assault guards without mentioning in the text.


That's a genius solution!
18 Feb 2020, 20:49 PM
#6
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 796

Keep it as is.

There are other "sub-optimal" unit call-ins similar to this. In Lend-lease, the only way to get Guards is by also getting an (unwanted) M5-HT. In German mechanized and Mech Assault, the only way to get a 250-HT is by getting an (unwanted) Gren/Pgren squad.
18 Feb 2020, 21:00 PM
#7
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 177

Keep it as is.

There are other "sub-optimal" unit call-ins similar to this. In Lend-lease, the only way to get Guards is by also getting an (unwanted) M5-HT. In German mechanized and Mech Assault, the only way to get a 250-HT is by getting an (unwanted) Gren/Pgren squad.


I'm okay with the wehrmacht 250 HT call ins. You use it to get the 250 HT of which you would usually need only one. Plus you would use it in early game, so that extra squad doesn't hurt.
The guards assault group on the other hand is primary used to get the assault guards of which you may want to have more than 1.
18 Feb 2020, 21:04 PM
#8
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1206



Lend lease has the conscript repair kit passive. Could give it T4 assault guards without mentioning in the text.


Please, do not suggest things like that. There is no connection between CRK and assault guards. Also, things without mention via UI is always bad.

IMO, M5 should not be in the doctrine, since it is basic unit for Red Army (same goes for Ostheer with it's grenadiers/panzergrenadiers battle groups). There is some variants, what can be instead according to gamefiles:
- WC52 - visually identical to WC51, no skins, can be equiped with DShK, maybe some other grades as well.
- Universal Carrier - no skins, can be equiped with DShK.

Both this vehicles were used in the Red Army, and i believe some balance tweaks will help to separate them enough from M3 Scout Car.
18 Feb 2020, 21:07 PM
#9
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3682 | Subs: 1

On one hand i kinda like the guard's half track buy yea... but it would be nice to be able to use more than 1 squad....

Now some issues that might arise with buying em and their uograde being separate is that guards nagant is insanely good...so it might actually be OP if they came with 6 and an option to buy another upgrade...

On theme however as a worl around would be having them with 6 garands (also a good gun, but actually designed around having a number of them firing at a time)and giving guards the flexibikity to upgrade as they please- zooks, maybe a 2xBAR or bar +M1919 combo? Or thompsons.

If unbundled the halftrack (while great at its timing for snaller modes) could be swapped with one of the halftracks not already in the soviet core.
18 Feb 2020, 21:12 PM
#10
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3188

I love this bundle. Dirt cheap Assault Guards (seriously, when you subtract the halftrack the value on that squad is insane) and a Meat Chopper way earlier than Soviet usually gets it.

If you want assault infantry as individual call-ins, there are loads of Soviet doctrines that do it already. There's really no need to homogenise the one doctrine that does things a bit differently.
18 Feb 2020, 21:12 PM
#11
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 177


On theme however as a worl around would be having them with 6 garands (also a good gun, but actually designed around having a number of them firing at a time)and giving guards the flexibikity to upgrade as they please- zooks, maybe a 2xBAR or bar +M1919 combo? Or thompsons.


I have looked up and it seems that the soviets didn't receive any M1 garands. The soviet Lend lease small arms include: M50 Reising (not in the game), Thompson, Bren, Bazooka and Piat.
18 Feb 2020, 21:24 PM
#12
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 790

To be honest all call in bundles should be reworked. The Mechanized PGren and Grenadier squads as well.

It does not help anything in the late game because the LV is just wasted resources, and in the early game you're often (not always, but very often) off with just buying the infantry squad. I have the feeling the LVs also come a tad too late.

The German versions should be able to at least upgrade to a mortar half track, while the SOV version - actually don't know. The AA is neat, but often does not fit into a build. Just give the Guards here.
18 Feb 2020, 22:09 PM
#13
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1502 | Subs: 1

If anything I would say just move it to 2 CP like the OST equivalents and lock Meatchopper behind T3. THe problem for me is the timing of the call-in where 3 CP usually means you have enough infantry and the Guards just put you over the top with manpower bleed (their Veterancy could probably be reworked to help them as well if we're being honest).
18 Feb 2020, 22:11 PM
#14
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 721

If anything I would say just move it to 2 CP like the OST equivalents and lock Meatchopper behind T3. THe problem for me is the timing of the call-in where 3 CP usually means you have enough infantry and the Guards just put you over the top with manpower bleed (their Veterancy could probably be reworked to help them as well if we're being honest).


Assault Guards also have 100% RA for some reason, unlike every other Guards squad. Doesn't improve for a long time either, again unlike basically every other CQC squad. I remember bringing this up when they were being reworked originally and for some reason nobody ever commented on it.
18 Feb 2020, 22:38 PM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 14622 | Subs: 7

If the truck is to stay, it should provide something unique.

Again, that call-in is a leftover from the prehistoric times, when soviets were allowed to put down only 2 tiers and it was supplementing T4 builds.

Nowadays, HT serves no purpose in the call-in.
18 Feb 2020, 23:10 PM
#16
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1240 | Subs: 2

If anything I would say just move it to 2 CP like the OST equivalents and lock Meatchopper behind T3. THe problem for me is the timing of the call-in where 3 CP usually means you have enough infantry and the Guards just put you over the top with manpower bleed (their Veterancy could probably be reworked to help them as well if we're being honest).


+1

safe solution
18 Feb 2020, 23:11 PM
#17
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 491

Repeat my opinion……
Soviet assault guard and USF airborne combat group and Ost mechanical squad better make the special one to build in base,so when need group can call-in,when need special unit can build
18 Feb 2020, 23:43 PM
#18
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 555

Shocks already fill the cqb assault role for Soviets.
What if they were changed to be more like PanzerGrenadiers, with 1 Thompson + x5 SVT with increased near dps, and combined arms at vet 1?

The thompson would help people understand the intended range of the squad, and They would no longer conflict with Shocks in their intended role.
18 Feb 2020, 23:46 PM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 7660 | Subs: 1



IMO, M5 should not be in the doctrine, since it is basic unit for Red Army

One can use the M3 for USF mechanized commander instead of the M5...
19 Feb 2020, 00:56 AM
#20
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2062

Shocks already fill the cqb assault role for Soviets.
What if they were changed to be more like PanzerGrenadiers, with 1 Thompson + x5 SVT with increased near dps, and combined arms at vet 1?

The thompson would help people understand the intended range of the squad, and They would no longer conflict with Shocks in their intended role.


Assault Guards are not a problem. With the Thompsons they are really good units.
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