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Light Vehicle Penetration

12 Feb 2020, 11:16 AM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

The Puma has a very clever penetration profile. Its far penetration is a very light-vehicle esque 80, but when it closes within 10 metres of an enemy tank (about the length of a medium) its penetration spikes up to 160.

This lets the Puma scale into the mid and late game better than any other AT light: rather than just becoming useless, it can continue to deal damage by getting dangerously close to the enemy.

Should that be extended to the Stuart and AEC? The AEC is pretty much a Puma clone but only has a near penetration of 120 despite facing more heavily armoured targets. The Stuart has awful penetration, rendering it pretty much useless after the light vehicle phase.
12 Feb 2020, 11:20 AM
#2
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3942 | Subs: 1

Not just lights but all armour. I'd settle for just lights but it would be a fantastic change across the board
12 Feb 2020, 11:26 AM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8241 | Subs: 1

Not just lights but all armour. I'd settle for just lights but it would be a fantastic change across the board

This design is for "flanker" units and it should be limited to them. The high close penetration of KV-8 is actually bad design.
12 Feb 2020, 11:27 AM
#4
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

Not just lights but all armour. I'd settle for just lights but it would be a fantastic change across the board


I agree, but close range penetration spikes for every vehicle in the game isn't likely to happen at this stage.

Close range penetration spikes for the two vehicles that need it most? That might make it in.
12 Feb 2020, 11:31 AM
#5
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15166 | Subs: 7

AEC has better far pen then puma.

Stuart isn't AT light, it wants to be generalist tank of lights, but doesn't do well at either of its jobs, its just a bad T70 with better theoretical AT as practical AT is bad.
12 Feb 2020, 11:36 AM
#6
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2020, 11:31 AMKatitof
AEC has exactly the same penetration values as Cromwell, just 120 instead of 160 dmg.

Stuart isn't AT light, it wants to be generalist tank of lights, but doesn't do well at either of its jobs, its just a bad T70 with better theoretical AT as practical AT is bad.


Perhaps the Cromwell should get a close range penetration buff too. It's currently a speedier Sherman without any of the anti-infantry toys.

The Stuart's weird. It's trying to be the Panther of light vehicles and puts a lot of its worth into its high armour. Consequently, it utterly dominates the 222 and becomes useless once mediums arrive and that armour isn't worth shit any more.

Personally I think the Stuart's cannon should be reworked to be more like the Soviet baby AT gun.
12 Feb 2020, 11:55 AM
#7
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2030

Puma, Stuart and AEC are all fine. No need to break something that isn't broken.

Puma is better than the AEC that's true. But the AEC also comes earlier and has a better snare ability to help kill medium tanks and even heavies.

Stuart arrives at the same time of the Luchs and can defend itself with his stun shot against Pumas and P4s and can be used to take down heavier tanks with good flanks and the engine crit ability in combination with Jacksons or AT-guns. The unit is fine. And on top of that it also gets an aim time buff with the next balance patch.

12 Feb 2020, 12:02 PM
#8
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2606

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2020, 11:31 AMKatitof
AEC has better far pen then puma.

Stuart isn't AT light, it wants to be generalist tank of lights, but doesn't do well at either of its jobs, its just a bad T70 with better theoretical AT as practical AT is bad.


You underestimate how good tread shot is and how well it plays as a command vehicle with smoke and mobility.
12 Feb 2020, 12:07 PM
#9
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2020, 11:36 AMLago


The Stuart's weird. It's trying to be the Panther of light vehicles


It's more like the KV1 of the LV world. Tanki but not really great at anything.
Vaz
12 Feb 2020, 13:13 PM
#10
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 923



You underestimate how good tread shot is and how well it plays as a command vehicle with smoke and mobility.


I haven't seen a smoke ability on the stuart yet
12 Feb 2020, 13:48 PM
#11
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2606

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2020, 13:13 PMVaz


I haven't seen a smoke ability on the stuart yet


NEVER MIND

I thought he was talking about the AEC.
12 Feb 2020, 15:30 PM
#12
avatar of Toxicfirebal

Posts: 61

Personally i feel the stuart is a bit of a weird tank. Its a more expensive and well armoured T70 yet its AI is pitifull compared to the T70 and has no late game potential. So the only real purpose is to use it as shock tank against less experienced players and to counter the 222 and the Luchs.
12 Feb 2020, 16:03 PM
#13
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

Personally i feel the stuart is a bit of a weird tank. Its a more expensive and well armoured T70 yet its AI is pitifull compared to the T70 and has no late game potential. So the only real purpose is to use it as shock tank against less experienced players and to counter the 222 and the Luchs.


It's like it's geared super hard against the 222 specifically. The armour renders the 222 unable to penetrate it, but is next to useless against Pumas and up.

Its low penetration makes barely any difference against lights, but renders it completely impotent against mediums.

It's a worst of both worlds tank at the moment, with the anti-infantry performance of an AEC and the anti-tank performance of a T-70.
12 Feb 2020, 16:18 PM
#14
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1529 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Feb 2020, 11:36 AMLago


Personally I think the Stuart's cannon should be reworked to be more like the Soviet baby AT gun.


Like if the Stuart got a toggle to canister rounds? Probably maybe OP? You'd have to really nerf the AI of the AP rounds.
12 Feb 2020, 16:27 PM
#15
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3216

Like if the Stuart got a toggle to canister rounds? Probably maybe OP? You'd have to really nerf the AI of the AP rounds.


More the fast-firing, low damage, middling penetration, no AoE setup.

Canister rounds would be a bit much. The patch notes state it's meant to be an AT unit now.
12 Feb 2020, 18:19 PM
#16
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2401 | Subs: 1

Yeah solid change. I agree with armadillo too you can probably do this for some other units. Mostly the flanking-oriented ones like Vipper mentioned
12 Feb 2020, 19:31 PM
#17
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1933

Sadly...most allies tank must only deal with 4 model squads..
12 Feb 2020, 20:09 PM
#18
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2401 | Subs: 1

Sadly...most allies tank must only deal with 4 model squads..


What does this have anything to do with buffing close range penetration of AEC/Stuart?
12 Feb 2020, 20:41 PM
#19
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15166 | Subs: 7

Sadly...most allies tank must only deal with 4 model squads..

Are you aware of existence of OKW?
Osttruppen?
Assault grens?
Or, I don't know, fucking meta panzerfussiliers?
12 Feb 2020, 21:29 PM
#20
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3942 | Subs: 1



What does this have anything to do with buffing close range penetration of AEC/Stuart?

It doesn't matter. It's an allied buff so there MUST be push back. Relevance is irrelevant.
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