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COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

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25 Jan 2020, 17:29 PM
#301
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2176 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2020, 17:22 PMLago


What's the AVRE going to do? Hit it with the spigot? I suppose that could work in concert with an AEC to stun it, but it's still not stronger than a normal Churchill against armour.


His point is a P4 can't counter the AVRE because it takes insane amounts of time for a P4 to land enough penetrating hits to take the AVRE down. It's not about the AVRE killing the P4.
25 Jan 2020, 17:29 PM
#302
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8845 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2020, 17:22 PMLago


What's the AVRE going to do? Hit it with the spigot? I suppose that could work in concert with an AEC to stun it, but it's still not stronger than a normal Churchill against armour.

An Avre can make a PzIV die from boredom trying to kill it...

The armor values (both rear and front) and HP of Churchills are simply to high for PzIV to deal with them.

At least ST has lower rear armor.

A comparison of AVRE and Churhcill vs armor is rather dificult due to the difrent mechanisms (AVRE requires lots of micro,skill and RNG but can be devastating), Avre is stonger vs slow moving target like a KT.


..

Exactly. Combined with fast repairs from Heavy Sappers AVRE can fire and return into the fight very fast.
25 Jan 2020, 17:33 PM
#303
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

People need to stop with the off-topic comments. Also please stop comparing things that aren't comparable. Ost fragmentation bombs are primarily AI while the Soviet IL2 bombing run is against structures, stunned heavy tanks or very expensive aerial denial.

What to do with Soviet Airborne?

Make the IL2 rocket strafe 180 muni with longer cool down so it isn't as spammable or keep it at 100 muni but reduce the damage of the rockets by 30-40%.


it deals 160 damage per rocket. how much more less do you want it to be?

IL-2 Rocket Strafe

Requires 10 Command Points.
Costs 100 munitions
Barrages the area with P-47 rockets. Effective against vehicles.


IL-2 Rocket Strafe
-Damage against vehicles from 120 to 140.
-AOE damage profile against buildings reduced to SCAS Strafe level.
-Damage against non-vehicle targets from 120 to 20.


IL-2 Rocket Strafe
-Damage from 120 to 160 versus vehicles.
-Building AOE damage from 1/1/1 to 0.25/0.001/0.0005 (this will be adjusted, values are temporary to stop ability from hard countering buildings)


IL-2 Rocket Strafe

A slight delay has been added due to the high damage this ability can deal to armored vehicles in a short period of time, before players can react.

-Added a delay of 2 seconds before the airstrike arrives




its a quick reward risky rng dependant ability. can only be used agasint tanks not buildings and needs to engine crit enemy tank or a sleeeping opponent
25 Jan 2020, 17:35 PM
#304
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2176 | Subs: 1



it deals 160 damage per rocket. how much more less do you want it to be?



120 seems reasonable.
25 Jan 2020, 17:42 PM
#305
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281



IL2 precision bombing and IL2 AT rocket strafe are completely different. What are you even talking about??

And what in god's name does the Sturmtiger and AVRE have to do with an off-map anti-tank IL2 strafe?


i meantioned il2 precision to highlght that people are whining for no reason because same tactics already exsited in game before the new commnader update. AKA ram and il2 precision.

someone mentioned ram is cheesy. so i said if avre and sturmtiger isnt cheesy enough so what is? i am talking aboust cheese here

25 Jan 2020, 17:45 PM
#306
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2176 | Subs: 1



i meantioned il2 precision to highlght that people are whining for no reason because same tactics already exsited in game before the new commnader update. AKA ram and il2 precision.

someone mentioned ram is cheesy. so i said if avre and sturmtiger isnt cheesy enough so what is? i am talking aboust cheese here



Ram + IL2 precision bombing only works on Ele or JT, maybe on snared/stunned KT if executed super well. It is too slow against medium tanks. So no, ramming + IL2 precision bombing doesn't work the same way and on top of that it's also twice as expensive as the IL2 AT strafe.
25 Jan 2020, 17:52 PM
#307
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3251

His point is a P4 can't counter the AVRE because it takes insane amounts of time for a P4 to land enough penetrating hits to take the AVRE down. It's not about the AVRE killing the P4.


If a P4 could dive and kill an AVRE nobody would ever build the AVRE. It does enough damage to force the AVRE to play defensively, which is what matters. No marauding around like a shock unit.

When the next tank's worth of fuel comes around, the UKF player has a medium and an AVRE, and the other player has two mediums. The UKF player will have to lean on their ATGs to keep their tanks alive, which forces them into a more defensive playstyle until they can gain the armour advantage.

It's not that different to building an Ostwind or a Centaur as your first tank: you inflict a lot of bleed, but you hand armour superiority to your opponent.
25 Jan 2020, 17:56 PM
#308
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281



Ram + IL2 precision bombing only works on Ele or JT, maybe on snared/stunned KT if executed super well. It is too slow against medium tanks. So no, ramming + IL2 precision bombing doesn't work the same way and on top of that it's also twice as expensive as the IL2 AT strafe.


it is dedicated anti tank. what is so difficult to understand about this? that means no damage whatso ever to anything else . neither infantry or buildings.

yes il2 precision is expensive because you can
1 destroy an enemy garriosn with it
2 destroy a limping tank with good anticipation
3. clear out enemy arty pieces
4. clear out pak 43
5 area denial.

it is a multi purpose ability while il2 rocket strafe is just a situational ability and depends on rng. i have seen it hit houses and trees in the path multiple times. im not discussing anymore on this now. you can keep on if you like :)
25 Jan 2020, 17:57 PM
#309
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281



120 seems reasonable.


must have been something which made the balance team increase its damage?
25 Jan 2020, 18:11 PM
#310
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3251

The counter to Ram + IL-2 strafe is to build more than one tank.
25 Jan 2020, 19:02 PM
#311
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 756



well for starters t34 is at 300 mp and 90 fuel. So no 240-300. Also if you increase the price you might need to buff it lol :clap: or buff the doctrine .

the other thing about il2 precision is that it is still slower than fragmentaion bombs. So you might want to say something about this?

All the standard soviet and ost abilities are balances. the IL2 can kill tanks which the frag bombs can't. For only 20 m less thats quite a disadvantage.
25 Jan 2020, 19:05 PM
#312
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 767



Did it occur to you that damage of p47 was nerfed as well as locking? This ability is not justified for its price after the hefty nerfs. Talking about USF airborne here.


I posted a thread in Bugs about this earlier. P47 rockets damage is actually bugged due to wrong target type usage.
25 Jan 2020, 20:20 PM
#313
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 1287 | Subs: 1


All the standard soviet and ost abilities are balances. the IL2 can kill tanks which the frag bombs can't. For only 20 m less thats quite a disadvantage.


Which bombs do you mean? Aren't frag bombs supposed to kill infantry (I think they are in the German Infantry Commander)? Or do we talk about different abilities?
25 Jan 2020, 22:32 PM
#314
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 459

I like tommy movement accuracy buff. You can actually push now instead of hurdle in cover until enemy decides to leave. I wish there was non doc weapon to let them be aggressive.
25 Jan 2020, 22:36 PM
#315
avatar of Rutra5214

Posts: 26

I'm happy with IR HT rework idea, but on the other hand what OKW will need to use to counter/reveal camo units? Drive with kubelwagen can work for first few minutes but what in the lategame? Vet 1 ability is quite ok, but you need to vet KW and keep it alive, what isn't that easy. Ostheer have access to stuka recon plane which can be countered with aa tool (fair enough) but with OKW you can use only doctrinal flares for recon (not revealing camo units tho) or use "smoke drop" but it's not it's primarly role to provide reconessance.
26 Jan 2020, 02:52 AM
#316
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1166

Any thoughts about decreasing fall time of sight flares?
They reveal big area for too long and uncounterable.
Distort the need for true sight tactics.

IRHT got hit. So sight flares is next?
26 Jan 2020, 04:32 AM
#317
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 756



Which bombs do you mean? Aren't frag bombs supposed to kill infantry (I think they are in the German Infantry Commander)? Or do we talk about different abilities?
I'm talking about the one in German infantry. The guy was arguing if you think the il2 at strafe is op then how is the drag bomb balanced and also brought up il2 precisions strike for some reason.
26 Jan 2020, 05:08 AM
#318
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 281

I'm talking about the one in German infantry. The guy was arguing if you think the il2 at strafe is op then how is the drag bomb balanced and also brought up il2 precisions strike for some reason.


No. Not for some reason. I explained above how il2 rocket is not op. Gave examples of il2 precision above which has been in the game for a long time. Go read.
26 Jan 2020, 06:43 AM
#319
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 560

Rockets strafe was never OP, it's just cheesy on small maps and useless on large ones. You cant balance that ability it's either nukes enemy tank or you just wasted your own T-34 and 100 munitions on top of that.
It would be better from the start to give this commander PTAB or even just copy P-47 AT loiter reskinned with IL-2s
26 Jan 2020, 08:47 AM
#320
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 859



Maybe not world pen, but is there anything that can be done about this?
https://imgur.com/TkoNiRF (guess you can't embed gifs?)

It seems even a bit of yellow cover can block incredible amounts of damage. A direct hit from an ST should wipe all the models, especially of a vet0 con squad.



that is some awful aiming, you need to shoot behind the target, if you use ST all the time you would know.
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