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COH2 winter balance mod - discussion

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24 Jan 2020, 23:20 PM
#241
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 897

However, it's quite easy to work around this by aiming well beyond the target:


If the intended "fix" for the ST is overshooting, can we at least increase its range, then? The current range would be fine if it actually landed where you fire it at, but overshooting that much means losing 5-10 range, and making it even more obvious as to what you're going to do.

For the Sturmtiger, could you give it worldpiercing but require vision for the rocket? that way it improves consistency, but you can't fire it through houses as easily? IDK if this would work


From my understanding, world-pierce is an on/off thing. It either always penetrates everything, or always hits the world. I don't think there's a way to make it conditional.

Another option could be to give it a 2nd rocket type; in reality, the ST had a 'shaped charge' rocket for use against fortifications, in addition to its normal HE rocket. The HE rocket could be the current one, and the new "shape charge" one could have world-piercing, but a smaller explosion and a muni-cost.


Any chance USF can get some kind of countersniping? It's really tiring facing Ostheer as USF and having to deal with 1 or 2 snipers just bleeding you dry and while you can't touch them.

Then OKW would need something as well (other than the kubel). Also, USF infantry is already very dominant, especially against OST. No need to give them even more of an advantage.
24 Jan 2020, 23:39 PM
#242
avatar of The_Flying_Flail

Posts: 47

Any potential buffs to partisans to make them survive the late game? Perhaps a munition based survivals training or a 5th model at Vet3. Its really hard for them to survive past 15min Mark to be an effective disruption unit if they die really easily especially on the retreat from enemy lines. I wouldn’t mind a MP price increase if it means making them better.
24 Jan 2020, 23:48 PM
#243
avatar of Grim

Posts: 857

Any potential buffs to partisans to make them survive the late game? Perhaps a munition based survivals training or a 5th model at Vet3. Its really hard for them to survive past 15min Mark to be an effective disruption unit if they die really easily especially on the retreat from enemy lines. I wouldn’t mind a MP price increase if it means making them better.


Same tbh.

Either a munitions based upgrade, vet upgrade or the ability to refund them at base for some MP return would be great.

At the moment they are worth it for the meme value but little else.
25 Jan 2020, 02:13 AM
#244
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 725

First off I want to say COH2.org Discord is hosting a tourney based on winter balance prview so we can get some samples and have a bit of fun.

On to thoughts

Armor on wasp is huge for brits. Still won't be as good as a flame halftrack but god damn that's going to be fun.

Little bit about the teching for Brits thou.

One of the ways Brits is staying competitive right now adjusting to the Tommy nerfs is by rushing fast Cromwell. The good stalling power of brits and trenches allow. Giving a lot of Cqc options is pretty good but here is my concern.

It's going to be easier for top UKF players to get armor out. Meaning, we might be seeing 8-9 minute Centaurs due to how UKF teching works. It technically only takes 145 fuel in order to start unlocking mediums assuming skipping things like Bolster, AEC, etc.

Here you've given even easier ways to skip bolster with 5 man spawning squads which eliminates the 35 fuel needed for bolster. Here you've given a CQC anti infantry unit as an alternative to Sniper in the mid game.(A lot of brit players get a sniper to supplement A.I since tommy mid game has no meaninful offensive vet) Along with the lend lease doctrine, you can skip AEC tech and get AA halftrack vs ost. With a potentially much better early game, Wasp Buffs, CQC mid game unit, Brit will have a much better mid game than ever before. BUT I'd say you can get a centaur competitively with LV timing about 8-9 minutes since all of these factors lead to NEEDING LESS FUEL TO BE COMPETITIVE WHILE ALSO INCREASING MAP PRESENCE.

This is going to completely flip flop mid-low level Brit vs OST. Espically a level where people don't understand how to deal with Assault troops and a level where the moving accuracy/RA buffs will help the most.

In essense, a recipe for Cheese.

What i'm suggesting is to force the unlock of AEC or Bofors tech in order to unlock T3. This wouldn't nerf traditional doctrines but rather an anti chese measure.


So counter it the same way you counter assgren spam? Assault officer and assault section have no snare unlike cav rifles.

I mean without bolster REs or AEC you're going to be pretty vulnerable to Luch or FHT. Especially on CQB maps where Atg are easily avoided. And larger maps the assault sections will struggle so you'll need at least Brens sections and or five man anyway.

I imagine we will still see a lot of five man and double sapper builds or AEC just because of these vulnerabilitys. Really Cromwell rush is nothing new and light vehicles will still punish it just the same. (And if you invest in a AAht that's still a fuel sink delaying tech similar to AEC, which also will struggle vs 444 and the late game of that doctrine kinda sucks)

Not saying your fears are unfounded, but let's see how it plays out. The counter to this seems obvious really.
25 Jan 2020, 02:53 AM
#245
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 218


Commandos are meant to rely on their camouflage, not target size. Their veteran received accuracy is pretty high compared to regular brute force elite assault squads. Rangers and Panzergrenadiers have around 0.53/0.56 for example. The veteran received accuracy for Assault Sections is on par with other non-elite assault troops (Assault Engineers and Assault Grenadiers).


I never looked at the other assault troops RA untill now. The assault sections took me by suprize, I still think commandos cost too much to reinforce as they drop off quite steeply mid-late game because you don't realisticly have time to micro them well enough. Besides that, they are fine early-mid.

Also the HQ glider does not come with medics. The glider should also be repairable, its stupid that it can get damaged when landing, sometimes it can be left with nwxt to no health left.

Edit: For abit of fun, I was playing around has the brit faction and called out the soviet commissar squad and this happened.




25 Jan 2020, 03:27 AM
#246
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 373

Can you at least confirm if you're going to add Ostheer buffs later on? Are you working on it?
25 Jan 2020, 04:44 AM
#247
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 193



Is this a pro gam3r only tournament? :p


Nope, It's for anyone below lvl 17
25 Jan 2020, 05:08 AM
#248
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724


Edit the wrong stats out or i'll invis the comment later.

ok
25 Jan 2020, 05:08 AM
#249
avatar of Wittmann39

Posts: 42

I have a different approach for IRHT. I am not a native English, so I will keep it short.

IRHT, as its name suggests, is an infrared device, opposed to optical devices such as spotting scopes. So, we have to differentiate them and they have to perform rather differently to match basic physics rules. I suggest that IRHT replace spec-ops flare ability as a doctorinal ability as is. So, it will be a special doctorinal unit and there will be less complains about its special effect, fitting well in spec-ops theme and avoiding another big nerf to this doctorine. After all, it is counterable by artiller, diving or whatever and will be a better choice for both its user and its enemy which always keep complaining at un-counterable flare.

Instead, you can add SdKfz 250 or 251 to stock OKW roster. This will fill the much anticipated mobile reinforcement platform for OKW. Also, 251's flame upgrade maybe removed in the favor of mobile observation post upgrade, bringing kind of non-doctorinal recon ability which previously offered by Uhu in a much greater fashion. It will help make BattleGroup HQ a better choice too.
25 Jan 2020, 05:30 AM
#251
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2020, 18:11 PMKatitof

Because fully upgraded sections do not cost 240mp and 60muni max.

And so what???? Just because they cost more they are entitled to not reqire combined arms??? well PG's cost 340mp muh more than blody sections and they are not entitled to awesome outside combined arms.
25 Jan 2020, 06:36 AM
#252
avatar of blancat

Posts: 788

can i ask why brits get a 0cp 280 mp squad with 82.5 dps 66.3 dps???? while ost only get one with 51 dps????? what kind of retarded imbalance is this??? even cav rifles have less dps and still require 1 command pointsCav rifles have same dps and still require 1 cp. Like why do they get to have 0 cp 280mp units that are stronger than panzer grens.

New ass tommies vs Pgrens:
EHP: 400 v 400
dps: 66.3 v 62
vet: +40% acc -36% ra -25% cd v +40% acc -29% ra -25% cd

What the fucking hell.


This is ridiculous comparison

dps varies with distance, and PG has high dps down to mid range

And PG have combined arms passive + bundle nade and dont need weapon upgrade

Before you talk about balance, buy the UKF dlc and play it yourself.
25 Jan 2020, 07:09 AM
#253
avatar of The_Sunny_Lad

Posts: 6

Not sure if this is the right thread for this, but in the few tests I did with the preview mod, I noticed a couple of things that weren't mentioned in the preview (not sure if these are intentional changes or not):
- Infantry Section reinforce cost is 29 per model (not sure if this is before or after the 5 man upgrade)
- Infantry Section costs are 280 manpower for a squad
- Croc/AVRE are still at 9 CP to call in

Also I noticed a bug where if Airlanding Officer models holding weapons are killed, the weapons are permanently lost.
MMX
25 Jan 2020, 07:10 AM
#254
avatar of MMX

Posts: 223

Remove the all tech structures requirement and replace with 800MP/300FU price tag on all heavies


this basically... i'd be against any nerfs in the performance department, some tweaks to their price tag - both fuel and mp - would make heavies much less of a no brainer
25 Jan 2020, 07:59 AM
#255
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 724

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2020, 06:36 AMblancat


This is ridiculous comparison

dps varies with distance, and PG has high dps down to mid range

And PG have combined arms passive + bundle nade and dont need weapon upgrade

Before you talk about balance, buy the UKF dlc and play it yourself.

Then should i compare ass grens then?????
25 Jan 2020, 08:22 AM
#256
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 607


Then should i compare ass grens then?????



Sure, then we can clearly see ass sections is nowhere outstanding.
25 Jan 2020, 08:29 AM
#257
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 607


And so what???? Just because they cost more they are entitled to not reqire combined arms??? well PG's cost 340mp muh more than blody sections and they are not entitled to awesome outside combined arms.


Pgren and stumpio can win outright vs unupgraded section event in section's ideal scenario (close in from max range vs gren cover). Vs upgraded sections, stum and pgren can still win in certain situations.

Sections do require combine arm as much as any others mainline.
25 Jan 2020, 09:23 AM
#258
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8290 | Subs: 1



Maybe not world pen, but is there anything that can be done about this?
https://imgur.com/TkoNiRF (guess you can't embed gifs?)

It seems even a bit of yellow cover can block incredible amounts of damage. A direct hit from an ST should wipe all the models, especially of a vet0 con squad.


Imo units like brumbar/ST/Avre should have better modifier vs units in cover/garrison and work more like flame tanks ignoring most cover bonuses. Treir damage might need to be rudeced or have a limit to max casaulties per squad to conpensate.
25 Jan 2020, 09:44 AM
#259
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15221 | Subs: 7


And so what???? Just because they cost more they are entitled to not reqire combined arms??? well PG's cost 340mp muh more than blody sections and they are not entitled to awesome outside combined arms.

No, but they are entitled to stomp incomparably cheaper squads that require zero side costs investments.
25 Jan 2020, 09:45 AM
#260
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1146

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Jan 2020, 03:27 AMCresc
Can you at least confirm if you're going to add Ostheer buffs later on? Are you working on it?
Give this man more attention. He is asking the right things.
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