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russian armor

jackson armor nerf

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30 Jan 2020, 09:30 AM
#281
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 378 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 08:45 AMwongtp


Oof. Elitist spotted.

Team games ans 1v1 are wholly different games. The issues that 4v4 players face are far more obnoxious than 1v1 gameplay.

In team games jacksons are not that much issue because heavy TD is a thing and most axis teams have at least an elefant or JT to deal with allied TD. As well as multiple panthers to soak shots and bounce some of them, the problems of jacksons are diluted, while the issues with axis armor are magnified.

The problems faced in 1v1 and 4v4s are different. Nerf jackson too much, you remove usf from team games entirely.

Unless superzooks are available non doctrinally on a unit that is ubiquitious. Then yes, jacksons can be nerfed.


Nice attempt at taking things out of context. The bottom 10% player was claiming that it was a lack of skill which led to players being unable to counter the uncounterable Jackson.

Pointing out how farcical it was certainly doesn't make one an elitist. Especially since the Jackson is too good in the majority of skill brackets, and not just top level play.

In any case, the majority of competitive video games are balanced around a competitive-competent level of play. Hardly a radical or elitist sentiment. The bottom quartile of players may not understand these balance issues properly, and pointing out the flaws in their understanding isn't elitist either. Sometimes after protracted attempts to explain a relatively simple issue, patience can wear a little thin and words start to get harsher.

30 Jan 2020, 09:45 AM
#282
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2863

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 04:21 AMCODGUY




Okay here we go:

All crying Axis players agree the Jackson needs a nerf...so what?

Explain to me why you think a 120 fuel, 340 MP (or 140 fuel for the better one) multi-use medium TANK should be able to take on a 145 fuel 400 MP single-purpose TANK DESTROYER? Get a grip.

The balance team has already seen fit to wet nurse the Axis player base by handing out HMG42s, Panzergrens, Obers, Fallschrimjagers (you know, the stuff that comes WAY too early) along with non-doctrinal heavy Armor like King Tigers and Panthers.

If the balance team wants to do that fine. But doing that while nerfing Brits into the ground and now possibly the Jackson, it would be a laughably biased move.

Some of the things I've read here recently just make me cringe. Some of you people think a Puma should counter a Jackson. Seriously, WTF?

The Jackson is the only...ONLY unit USF has outside of a doctrine that truly excels.


Mega cringe
30 Jan 2020, 09:50 AM
#283
avatar of A Furry Wehraboo

Posts: 56

While I find it strange that the Jackson has so much armour, from a realism standpoint. I understand it's pretty much the only TD USF has and they need it. It does seem really strong though. Also I know this game isn't about realism so
30 Jan 2020, 09:51 AM
#284
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 979

They should just make existing doctorines more attractive; like the EZ8 one. Perhaps we'd see more of them and less Jacksons
30 Jan 2020, 09:52 AM
#285
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2863

They should just make existing doctorines more attractive; like the EZ8 one. Perhaps we'd see more of them and less Jacksons


EZ8 doc is good, don’t listen to them. All that’s needed is slightly better aoe vs inf by the ez8.
30 Jan 2020, 10:07 AM
#286
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15610 | Subs: 7

While I find it strange that the Jackson has so much armour, from a realism standpoint.

Jackson had up to 108mm of angled armor.
Panther had up to 110mm of angled armor.
Tiger had 120mm.
P4 had up to 80mm.

From a realism standpoint, Jackson has no armor at all in CoH2.
But game isn't balanced around realism, you have failed MoW series for that.
30 Jan 2020, 10:28 AM
#287
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2863

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 10:07 AMKatitof

Jackson had up to 108mm of angled armor.
Panther had up to 110mm of angled armor.
Tiger had 120mm.
P4 had up to 80mm.

From a realism standpoint, Jackson has no armor at all in CoH2.
But game isn't balanced around realism, you have failed MoW series for that.


Jackson also has an open top turret. Realistically indirect fire and fighter MGs should kill it.

Agreed that it’s not realistic.
30 Jan 2020, 10:28 AM
#288
avatar of A Furry Wehraboo

Posts: 56

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 10:07 AMKatitof

Jackson had up to 108mm of angled armor.
Panther had up to 110mm of angled armor.
Tiger had 120mm.
P4 had up to 80mm.

From a realism standpoint, Jackson has no armor at all in CoH2.
But game isn't balanced around realism, you have failed MoW series for that.

I guess what gets me is its open top. But yeah if the game was balanced around realism, Oof. I don't think that would turn out well
30 Jan 2020, 10:38 AM
#290
avatar of Musti

Posts: 201

Funny how "realism" is always about allied vehicles being made out of paper, or german vehicles being pure wunderwaffe

Its never about Elefants setting themselves on fire every 20 meters or Panther breaking their final drives all the time.
30 Jan 2020, 10:40 AM
#291
avatar of A Furry Wehraboo

Posts: 56

That's what MoW is for I guess?
30 Jan 2020, 10:45 AM
#292
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2863

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2020, 10:38 AMMusti
Funny how "realism" is always about allied vehicles being made out of paper, or german vehicles being pure wunderwaffe

Its never about Elefants setting themselves on fire every 20 meters or Panther breaking their final drives all the time.


That's not realism either. Realism is Panthers taking forever to aim because there's no unison sight and the commander can't direct the gunner to the target and has to tell him where to look, or the Panter gunner not having low magnification scope.

Realism is Elephant not having defense against infantry and getting immediately disabled when infantry get close to it and blow its tracks and force the crew out.

Realism is german tanks getting stuck in the mud because they have poor ground pressure.


Honestly if you want realism just play Steel Division, it's a perfect mix of fun and realism.
30 Jan 2020, 10:49 AM
#293
avatar of Musti

Posts: 201

That's what MoW is for I guess?

Sure, it's a pretty fun (if clunky) game in which you can arm entire infantry squads with LMGs stolen from enemy vehicles

Regarding the topic at hand, you can nerf Jacksosn armor as much as you want, 100, 80, doesn't matter,
right now it has like a 1/6 chance to bounce a P4 from max range? anything more than that goes through 100% of the time anyway.
30 Jan 2020, 11:27 AM
#294
avatar of A Furry Wehraboo

Posts: 56

Sorry for getting off topic. So, the Jackson performs very well. If it were nerfed, what would they need to change about USF to compensate?
30 Jan 2020, 11:39 AM
#295
avatar of wongtp

Posts: 647

Sorry for getting off topic. So, the Jackson performs very well. If it were nerfed, what would they need to change about USF to compensate?


Probably a decent AT gun that isnt an ammo sink with a non doc heavy tank that can soak shots and punch back against axis heavies.

If the only real active AT in usf army is nerfed, other AT options must step up and must be resistant to rocket artillery.

No idea why rocket artillery is available to all armies non doctrinally except usf and ukf, but that is for another topic.
30 Jan 2020, 11:46 AM
#296
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8701 | Subs: 1

Sorry for getting off topic. So, the Jackson performs very well. If it were nerfed, what would they need to change about USF to compensate?

Nothing.

The idea is not nerf M36 to oblivion but to make M36 unable to snipe everything and having practically the same performance regardless if it engages from range 40 or to range 60 or if it moves or not.
30 Jan 2020, 11:54 AM
#297
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 2863

Sorry for getting off topic. So, the Jackson performs very well. If it were nerfed, what would they need to change about USF to compensate?


I don’t know, which part of Falls or LGF was buffed to compensate for the faust removal?
30 Jan 2020, 14:59 PM
#299
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4210 | Subs: 1

Sorry for getting off topic. So, the Jackson performs very well. If it were nerfed, what would they need to change about USF to compensate?


To be honest we don't know specifically because they Jackson is the be all end all of AT.

But there are options. Sherman AP could be tuned slightly, I think if officers got elite zooks that could really help. But realistically usf has great options in most of their commanders that never see the light of day due to the Jackson. It overshadows literally everything so we don't know exactly how the faction would work without it being as strong. The tools are there we just don't know exactly how they need to be tweaked.
30 Jan 2020, 15:09 PM
#300
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 297

I don’t know, which part of Falls or LGF was buffed to compensate for the faust removal?

That's easy. They were fine with their faust before they got buffed. Then they got overbuffed. Now we remove faust to partially compensate for lack of nerf when they got buffed.
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