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Ninja escape for stromtroopers

14 Jan 2020, 15:56 PM
#21
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

Been using them of late.

I dont see a difference in their speed when they come out of ambush. Giving them brens also dosnt seem worth it tbh.

They are quite expensive and come out at 3 cp.

You can get infiltration commandos that only have 3 modals for 320mp still costing 35mp to reinforce the 2 extra bringing them to 390mp.

Glider which cost 390mp, yeah you get the glider but you really get it for the commandoes.

Forward logistics glider, 540mp. You get aload of goodies like the landing officer but who really has time to build commandos costing a further 350mp.

And storm troopers cost 340mp and come at 2cp,33 mp to reinforce.

Also digging through their vet, they get
vet 1. smoke grenade
vet2:25% accuracy and grenade range
vet3:10% received accuracy and drop smoke on retreat (also self heal).

No cooldown bonus in sight.

Edit: I think stormtroopers are fine as they are. Mayby giving them an ambush bonus like commandos (probably would need to be abit weaker) would suffice replacing focus fire.

The whole point is the cool ninja factor. Smoke and they are gone.
14 Jan 2020, 16:03 PM
#22
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 14:47 PMVipper

Yes it will, currently ST performance is very RNG due to the high DPS drop off when they lose models.

I have seen them win and lose fights that they should not.
I would want to make stroms from elite troops be more combat focused instead of infiltration. There is a weapon in the game files called sturm_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp which is not used by anyone in game. We could perhaps modify it to boost it's damage at all ranges specially mid and long so they become more like generalists combat oriented like ir obers. Also giving them 5% more RA bonus from vet would be good.
14 Jan 2020, 16:13 PM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 7123 | Subs: 1

I would want to make stroms from elite troops be more combat focused instead of infiltration. There is a weapon in the game files called sturm_pioneer_mp44_smg_mp which is not used by anyone in game. We could perhaps modify it to boost it's damage at all ranges specially mid and long so they become more like generalists combat oriented like ir obers. Also giving them 5% more RA bonus from vet would be good.


Having 5 member does not mean it has to be better in combat, it mean it has a better chance of surviving retreating from behind enemy lines and lose less DPS per Model dropped.
14 Jan 2020, 16:23 PM
#24
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 16:13 PMVipper


Having 5 member does not mean it has to be better in combat, it mean it has a better chance of surviving retreating from behind enemy lines and lose less DPS per Model dropped.

What would be the point of surviving if they can't do anything useful.
14 Jan 2020, 16:24 PM
#25
14 Jan 2020, 16:26 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 7123 | Subs: 1


What would be the point of surviving if they can't do anything useful.

Their role is to disconnect areas in order to use "close the pocket".

One could add sight so they can be used as spotters.
14 Jan 2020, 17:29 PM
#27
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6621 | Subs: 1



Mandos have lower vet bonuses cus they have 1 more model. Each Model has RA 0.72. If you really wanna go as far to say make em equal then you have to make storms 5 man with 0.72 RA first then talk about choosing their vet bonuses.
PS. Do your math right.
it would be a dps loss of 7%
and RA loss of 21%


I'm talking about the difference between vet bonuses.

And accuracy translate as direct damage increase unless the accuracy value goes over 100% after taking into account the RA of the enemy unit. Therefore if you have -10% accuracy through vet, your DPS increment is reduced by that same value.
14 Jan 2020, 19:33 PM
#28
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678



I'm talking about the difference between vet bonuses.

And accuracy translate as direct damage increase unless the accuracy value goes over 100% after taking into account the RA of the enemy unit. Therefore if you have -10% accuracy through vet, your DPS increment is reduced by that same value.

1.3/1.4 is not 10% loss. Neither is 1.4/1.3 a 10% gain
14 Jan 2020, 19:38 PM
#29
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

i hate that commando ability
but the ability has some style to it no???
14 Jan 2020, 19:40 PM
#30
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 16:26 PMVipper

Their role is to disconnect areas in order to use "close the pocket".

One could add sight so they can be used as spotters.
they already do that well. Their job involves them never returning.
14 Jan 2020, 20:21 PM
#31
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2783


1.3/1.4 is not 10% loss. Neither is 1.4/1.3 a 10% gain

That's just getting down to semantics. 40% is 10 more percentage points than 30%. There, you happy?

Also gib commandos tac assault, gib stormtroopers ambush bonus, gib commandos flamenade, gib stormtroopers gammon, gib stormtroopers demo, gib stormtroopers 5 man, gib stormtroopers "commando" name, gib commandos "stormtrooper" name.

They're different units filling the same role, and they aren't identical. And that's fine.
14 Jan 2020, 20:36 PM
#32
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 95



Company of Shippuden: The village hidden on the Island


Company of Shinoby
14 Jan 2020, 21:18 PM
#33
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 7123 | Subs: 1

they already do that well. Their job involves them never returning.

The game is about unit preservation and that includes ST. I have explain why they should be entities and you are entitled to have a different opinion so I see little reason to continue this.
15 Jan 2020, 08:32 AM
#34
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678


That's just getting down to semantics. 40% is 10 more percentage points than 30%. There, you happy?

Also gib commandos tac assault, gib stormtroopers ambush bonus, gib commandos flamenade, gib stormtroopers gammon, gib stormtroopers demo, gib stormtroopers 5 man, gib stormtroopers "commando" name, gib commandos "stormtrooper" name.

They're different units filling the same role, and they aren't identical. And that's fine.

I'm a math man so nitpicking on numbers is my thing. Also, i wan't smoke retreat for the cool ninja factor and nothing else, it's the moderator who want's to swap vet bonuses.
15 Jan 2020, 08:38 AM
#35
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 21:18 PMVipper

The game is about unit preservation and that includes ST. I have explain why they should be entities and you are entitled to have a different opinion so I see little reason to continue this.
Look storms specially in Encirclement Doc is more like partisans(if only partisans were good that is). You don't care if they comeback or not(cus what else are you supposed use em for exactly). For German Infantry they are more like mandos go behind enemy lines and f shit up (I feel like this doctrine you can use em pretty well). For Elite Troops, yeah they don't make sense. For that doc specially they should be made into a different unit like combat storm troopers or something.
15 Jan 2020, 16:53 PM
#36
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6621 | Subs: 1


I'm a math man so nitpicking on numbers is my thing. Also, i wan't smoke retreat for the cool ninja factor and nothing else, it's the moderator who want's to swap vet bonuses.


I think you missed the point. The commandos get "cool ninja vet" because compared to ALL other infantry units, they get lower straight vet numbers.
If you want to buff Stormtroopers by giving them this ability which is specifically unique to Commandos, i don't think it's out of the mind to give them EXACTLY the same vet bonuses.

(IB4 someone appears. They are fine, but numerically they are on the lower end)
15 Jan 2020, 17:37 PM
#37
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 678



I think you missed the point. The commandos get "cool ninja vet" because compared to ALL other infantry units, they get lower straight vet numbers.
If you want to buff Stormtroopers by giving them this ability which is specifically unique to Commandos, i don't think it's out of the mind to give them EXACTLY the same vet bonuses.

(IB4 someone appears. They are fine, but numerically they are on the lower end)

Awww and here I was hoping to get cool nazi shinobi ss troop.
15 Jan 2020, 17:45 PM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 7123 | Subs: 1



I think you missed the point. The commandos get "cool ninja vet" because compared to ALL other infantry units, they get lower straight vet numbers.
If you want to buff Stormtroopers by giving them this ability which is specifically unique to Commandos, i don't think it's out of the mind to give them EXACTLY the same vet bonuses.

(IB4 someone appears. They are fine, but numerically they are on the lower end)

The majority of UKF units had inferior vet bonuses on release, probably due to faction design since started quite powerful.

This has changed for some units in the latest patches.
15 Jan 2020, 23:47 PM
#39
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1924 | Subs: 1

Would it be OP to give them the commando passive sprint ability?

I forget exactly how it works, but commandos auto-sprint at the first thing they see when they've been out of combat for a little while (at least that's how I think it works)
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