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russian armor

Nerf IR Halftrack

13 Jan 2020, 06:43 AM
#21
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

IR HT requiring muni to function is like conscripts requiring fuel each time they throw a molotov. Imo it's a very bad course to follow
MMX
13 Jan 2020, 06:54 AM
#22
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

IR HT requiring muni to function is like conscripts requiring fuel each time they throw a molotov. Imo it's a very bad course to follow


why though? you have to pay muni everytime you call in a recon plane or activate partisan network, not sure why the same logic shouldn't apply to the IRHT. that aside, and to use your analogy, i'd say it's like conscripst having to unlock molotovs for mp/fu once and having to spend mu each time molotovs are used.
13 Jan 2020, 06:57 AM
#23
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 06:54 AMMMX


why though? you have to pay muni everytime you call in a recon plane or activate partisan network, not sure why the same logic shouldn't apply to the IRHT. that aside, and to use your analogy, i'd say it's like conscripst having to unlock molotovs for mp/fu once and having to spend mu each time molotovs are used.

Recon planes either give you real vision so other units can open fire, for a long period of time or a long stripe along the map, like the USF mayor version. IRHT does not give that kind of spotting nor cover big portions of the map.

To get IRHT tech is required and that is like the side tech conscripts have to pay. That already happens
13 Jan 2020, 06:57 AM
#24
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

There are only really a few options:

A) Remove it
B) Timed cost ability
C) Replace it with high vision similar to old 222 with the ability that came from elefant commander
D) Make units appear on minimap only

But of course, make it 1HK, its cheaper than a walking stuka and has more survivability, should be the other way around.

I still don't understand the valentine wasnt allowed it but a non doctrinal unit was.
13 Jan 2020, 07:00 AM
#25
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 06:57 AMLatch
There are only really a few options:

But of course, make it 1HK, its cheaper than a walking stuka and has more survivability, should be the other way around.

I am going to stand and wait how long the IR beam takes to kill a model. And then "compare" it with the Wstuka

I still don't understand the valentine wasnt allowed it but a non doctrinal unit was.

Ask the devs then
13 Jan 2020, 07:03 AM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

IR HT requiring muni to function is like conscripts requiring fuel each time they throw a molotov. Imo it's a very bad course to follow


They have to spend fuel to unlock the molly? More than the fuel cost of the IRHT

But I dont think its crazy OP by any means. Maybe remove fuel cost altogether if a muni cost is added? Would that be fair?
13 Jan 2020, 07:03 AM
#27
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

Why??? then are we going to nerf para signal post thing that has more area coverage and doesn't take pop cap??
13 Jan 2020, 07:10 AM
#28
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

Why??? then are we going to nerf para signal post thing that has more area coverage and doesn't take pop cap??


What if we remove the exact same ability from UKF instead?
13 Jan 2020, 07:23 AM
#29
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 07:10 AMLatch


What if we remove the exact same ability from UKF instead?
you mean the velentine?? Sure go for it.
13 Jan 2020, 07:40 AM
#30
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Here’s how you fix the IR HT: It doesn’t reveal units but just marks units for better accuracy of IR STGs firing at them. You can then give a few more units IR stgs to make this an army dynamic.
13 Jan 2020, 14:29 PM
#31
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I like stormjager idea, but the IRHT the should affect all the frontal cone area simultaneously
13 Jan 2020, 14:43 PM
#32
avatar of C3 TOOTH

Posts: 176

For me
IR given to the faction because it had no MG to defend (except PzHQ is the only tool to guard cut off point)

It helps you to push a weak flank or prepare a counter flank an enemy push. Since Okw HAD no defense

But now IR is too broken in the faction. Just image Ost use LeFH in blindness, while OKW has IR to know where they shoot target

I think IR should consume at least 30ammo for each 1min.
13 Jan 2020, 15:21 PM
#33
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 06:57 AMLatch
I still don't understand the valentine wasnt allowed it but a non doctrinal unit was.


The IR scanning effect has a bug where units become visible on the tacmap permanently. Consequently, it's banned in tournaments.

The Valentine's IR scanning was removed to make it tournament legal.
13 Jan 2020, 17:04 PM
#34
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

I like stormjager idea, but the IRHT the should affect all the frontal cone area simultaneously


And what are your thoughts on a Muni cost per use? If they change the initial cost I don't see how you can be against Muni per use, it makes tons of sense

If something like the US AT gun costs Muni in order to function properly I don't see why the IR HT shouldn't have one
13 Jan 2020, 17:14 PM
#35
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358



And what are your thoughts on a Muni cost per use? If they change the initial cost I don't see how you can be against Muni per use, it makes tons of sense

If something like the US AT gun costs Muni in order to function properly I don't see why the IR HT shouldn't have one

My idea about IRHT is rework it into something less exploitable, Xray see through vision has proved to be too much but the unit must not become literally useless. The game diversity is at a minimum since its release, i dont want more units to dissapear.

Recon is valuable, we all can agree on with that, but sadly OKW design is poor unit sinergy. Therefore IRHT supporting too much is also counter intuitive. To pay for recon is expensive, IRHT is a cheap aproach for recon, thats why i dont like the idea. It cant give normal vision because it will spot for tanks and that would be OP, thats why it gives the red shadow effect, it gives information but no coordination.

To make IRHT reveal only on minimap will force players to use it and partly will make players distracted, newer players will have a real hard time mastering it.

If IRHT has to pay munitions to make it function, it must have at least a free ability (all units do) and the effect it has now must be boosted, both changes will push the OPness of the unit beyond the roof.
13 Jan 2020, 19:33 PM
#36
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


My idea about IRHT is rework it into something less exploitable, Xray see through vision has proved to be too much but the unit must not become literally useless. The game diversity is at a minimum since its release, i dont want more units to dissapear.


I agree completely. The only argument for removing it is to say they should remove it temporarily while they try to fix the bug that permanently reveals units on map. Otherwise it should stay and just be changed

I think only on minimap would be okay if it the sweep stays free, but yes then it should get something else too. Maybe an ability that boosts sight for nearby infantry? Or something like Storms idea for boosting accuracy
13 Jan 2020, 19:39 PM
#37
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

Why??? then are we going to nerf para signal post thing that has more area coverage and doesn't take pop cap??


The mechanic has already been removed from a combat unit (Valentine) because there is a gamebreaking bug (permanent maphack) which can't be solved by either Relic or Modteam and thus the unit has been banned from tournament play for a long time.

I've remember seeing it just after the release of WFA back in 2014 with a couple of reports back which were invis at the time to not spread awareness.

It's on their "database".

https://www.coh2.org/topic/42476/ir-ht-permanent-spots-units-on-tactical-map

13 Jan 2020, 20:24 PM
#38
avatar of Doomlord52

Posts: 959

Would it be possible to replace the current "X-Ray vision" with normal sight? It seems to me that using normal vision would fix most, if not all, of the problems the unit currently has.

Here’s how you fix the IR HT: It doesn’t reveal units but just marks units for better accuracy of IR STGs firing at them. You can then give a few more units IR stgs to make this an army dynamic.


This could also work, but "IR Sights" would need to be an upgrade on more than just infantry. Requiring a unit to be both seen by the IRHT and be fired on by IR-equipped squads would make it incredibly niche. Adding an "IR-Sight" upgrade for the Panther (this was a real thing) and possibly the JP4 would give this new roll a bit more utility.
13 Jan 2020, 20:48 PM
#39
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

Would it be possible to replace the current "X-Ray vision" with normal sight? It seems to me that using normal vision would fix most, if not all, of the problems the unit currently has.



This could also work, but "IR Sights" would need to be an upgrade on more than just infantry. Requiring a unit to be both seen by the IRHT and be fired on by IR-equipped squads would make it incredibly niche. Adding an "IR-Sight" upgrade for the Panther (this was a real thing) and possibly the JP4 would give this new roll a bit more utility.


Yeah I was thinking some units like Panther pintle MG, STG Obers, Sturmpioneers, MG34 and raketen could all upgrade to benefit from this.
13 Jan 2020, 22:03 PM
#40
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

Yea this unit is broken especially due to the fact that completely negates CAMMO! But I hardly see this unit in team games but yea some sort of update to this unit is needed.
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