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russian armor

smoke canisters

7 Dec 2019, 20:30 PM
#21
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


Shooting the smoke shells requires far more micro and time. The thing about ptac is its an wz panic escape. It is undeniably better as an escape ability. Which, when combined with high armour values and blitz makes it even more potent.

But seeing as you would like an offensive ability, something discussed last time ptac was talked about was the smoke shooting ahead of the tank instead of on the tank. Naturally you would support this entirely because then it could be used offensively and would thus be better right?


Okay let me put it this way.

Panzer tactician is a 0 skill ability with moderate reward.

Smoke shell is a moderate skill ability that can have a super high reward.

Panzer tactician is fine since it only blocks fire down a certain direction, doing nothing against attack ground, chases and flanks, while it’s also doctrinal. It shouldn’t be nerfed because of that ebcause the M4 sherman’s smoke cannisters are very much different and funciton to give a fragile unit more durability.
7 Dec 2019, 20:31 PM
#22
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

But the Soviet tanks are definitely not enough smoke. T-34-76 must receive a smoke shell and T-34-85 receive smoke bombs that are already in the model; they work like Churchill smoke only without slowing down the speed.


Soviet tanks need a good offensive ability, not smoke.

I’d love to see T34s get aimed shot at vet 3 to stun vehicles.
7 Dec 2019, 20:44 PM
#23
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3386 | Subs: 1

If you're gonna bring up that panzer tact is doctrinal, at least mention the fact that it also applies to every single tank on your roster. And it's hardly a rare Commander ability...
7 Dec 2019, 20:48 PM
#24
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1757


Shooting the smoke shells requires far more micro and time. The thing about ptac is its an wz panic escape. It is undeniably better as an escape ability. Which, when combined with high armour values and blitz makes it even more potent.

But seeing as you would like an offensive ability, something discussed last time ptac was talked about was the smoke shooting ahead of the tank instead of on the tank. Naturally you would support this entirely because then it could be used offensively and would thus be better right?


Im talking panzer tactian, any delay to it makes no sense.

It is needed against high pen values, high range, high damage. What high armour value is left besides panthers? Tigers are too slow to escape artist.
7 Dec 2019, 21:24 PM
#25
avatar of T.R. Marcel

Posts: 26

The point is, that no goddamn vehicle should have this on stock, and if they do so, it should be at least heavily delayed.

There is absolutly no issue in panzer tactician. If you cry about that, just give every faction commanders with it
7 Dec 2019, 21:37 PM
#26
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4142 | Subs: 3

I think it would be better if instead of skill tactician we had the doc slot give medium+ vehicles smoke shells like the cromwell so they can be used for both defensive or offensive purposes. I think the 222 and 251 could still retain the skill tac
7 Dec 2019, 21:55 PM
#27
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

I think it would be better if instead of skill tactician we had the doc slot give medium+ vehicles smoke shells like the cromwell so they can be used for both defensive or offensive purposes. I think the 222 and 251 could still retain the skill tac


You wanna give us smoke shells on P4s to use with G43 Pgrens? Smoke AT guns from range and just overwhelm any defensive line. It would be a buff, not a nerf.
7 Dec 2019, 22:13 PM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



You wanna give us smoke shells on P4s to use with G43 Pgrens? Smoke AT guns from range and just overwhelm any defensive line. It would be a buff, not a nerf.

It would be a design change. I right now cromwell can do it for commandos and Sherman's can do it for *insert Thompson wielding unit here* and you were just saying about how trash ptac was and how much better smoke shells are. One would think you would jump right on this. Unless of course your only saying so to down play 1 click escape smoke....
7 Dec 2019, 22:19 PM
#29
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


It would be a design change. I right now cromwell can do it for commandos and Sherman's can do it for *insert Thompson wielding unit here* and you were just saying about how trash ptac was and how much better smoke shells are. One would think you would jump right on this. Unless of course your only saying so to down play 1 click escape smoke....


Let me repeat myself.

P4 smokes AT guns. Then G43 Panzergrenadiers with vet 1 passive sprint and 0.95 moving accuracy G43s charge alongside the P4s.

I mean by all means, I’d probably enjoy the hell out of this, plus I load up Jaeger Inf, Mech Assault and Assault Support, so I don’t really use Panzer tactician.
7 Dec 2019, 22:55 PM
#30
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2



You wanna give us smoke shells on P4s to use with G43 Pgrens? Smoke AT guns from range and just overwhelm any defensive line. It would be a buff, not a nerf.


I'll say it would be a slight buff to top 10% and a nerf to the rest of the playerbase, if you know what i mean.
7 Dec 2019, 23:23 PM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Let me repeat myself.

P4 smokes AT guns. Then G43 Panzergrenadiers with vet 1 passive sprint and 0.95 moving accuracy G43s charge alongside the P4s.

I mean by all means, I’d probably enjoy the hell out of this, plus I load up Jaeger Inf, Mech Assault and Assault Support, so I don’t really use Panzer tactician.

Combined arms op? But only when Ost uses it. Got it.
7 Dec 2019, 23:31 PM
#32
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 778


Combined arms op? But only when Ost uses it. Got it.


I think what he's getting at is the extremely mobile dps output presented by the PzGren G43 package and their passive, combined with instant offensive smoke, presents a very dangerous combination. I think it presents a pretty legitimate concern.


When other factions get constant passive sprint (and RA reduction) on infantry for standing somewhere nearby a vehicle, and access to high-dps all-range weapons with almost no movement penalty, then it will no longer be an Ostheer-specific concern.
7 Dec 2019, 23:46 PM
#33
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4142 | Subs: 3



You wanna give us smoke shells on P4s to use with G43 Pgrens? Smoke AT guns from range and just overwhelm any defensive line. It would be a buff, not a nerf.


All the more reason to nerf G43s moving accuracy since that thing is a drag box playstyle reinforcer.
7 Dec 2019, 23:55 PM
#34
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



All the more reason to nerf G43s moving accuracy since that thing is a drag box playstyle reinforcer.


Well G43s are finally seeing use as a valuable tool, I don’t see them getting nerfed.
8 Dec 2019, 00:10 AM
#35
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1

The irony of when people want to nerf Panzer Tactician by replacing it with smoke shells.

Just this once I hope that is indeed an Axis nerf that becomes a thing.
8 Dec 2019, 00:16 AM
#36
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

The irony of when people want to nerf Panzer Tactician by replacing it with smoke shells.

Just this once I hope that is indeed an Axis nerf that becomes a thing.

The irony of wanting something thats power is based on the players capability instead of their ability to literally click 1 button. Not terribly ironic...
8 Dec 2019, 00:20 AM
#37
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 379 | Subs: 1


The irony of wanting something thats power is based on the players capability instead of their ability to literally click 1 button. Not terribly ironic...


It is, because by giving smoke shells to Wehrmacht vehicles you completely neutralize any team weapon threat. Ostwinds could just rampage forward right into AT guns and MGs and wipe them before the supporting infantry could even push up, that's how broken it would be.
8 Dec 2019, 00:31 AM
#38
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4142 | Subs: 3



It is, because by giving smoke shells to Wehrmacht vehicles you completely neutralize any team weapon threat. Ostwinds could just rampage forward right into AT guns and MGs and wipe them before the supporting infantry could even push up, that's how broken it would be.


Mines and handheld AT and snares literally stop this.
8 Dec 2019, 00:35 AM
#39
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3



Mines and handheld AT and snares literally stop this.


I’m sure you’ll be thinking that when I shoot a smoke shell at your MG then overwhelm your AT infantry with Panzergrenadiers.
8 Dec 2019, 00:38 AM
#40
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 778

Every theorycraft engagement takes place in an environment that has had at least 200 munitions worth of mines liberally distributed throughout, in exactly the right places they need to be.

Pay no heed to the fact some factions in this game don't even have regular access to snare mines.
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