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Survey. Swap OST blitzkrieg for Hull Down

Wich skill fits better OST theme?
Option Distribution Votes
76%
24%
Would you like to swap blitz for Hull down? Post why.
Option Distribution Votes
8%
88%
4%
Total votes: 51
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
25 Nov 2019, 14:14 PM
#1
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1776

IMO blitzkrieg brings up a few issues when considering tank battles in the current state I'd the game, simply because paired with P tactician provides a very reliable way to escape or when used aggressively it's really hard to stop a diving tank as durable as the ones in OST. I want to address this issue and share it to see if others see it aswell.

Historically blitzkrieg was nothing like the game implementation, but that's a personal taste for the topic. In late ww2 when the game is themed a blitz ability is just awkward.

I suggest hull down as a double possible fix, to the cheesiness of axis mediums, to a better -medium tank balance, only after the heavy tank meta gets fixed. Axis tanks are already durable, being stationary and tougher won't break the current balance, it will though suggest a more passive gameplay, but this is already punished by allied superior range TDs.

Blitz can become doctrinal and mutually exclusive with panzer tactician if needed. Hull down becomes stock and will help stugs to fight off TDs in late game.

What do you think? It's a big change but it might be worth it.
25 Nov 2019, 14:33 PM
#2
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 87

IMO blitzkrieg brings up a few issues when considering tank battles in the current state I'd the game, simply because paired with P tactician provides a very reliable way to escape or when used aggressively it's really hard to stop a diving tank as durable as the ones in OST. I want to address this issue and share it to see if others see it aswell.

Historically blitzkrieg was nothing like the game implementation, but that's a personal taste for the topic. In late ww2 when the game is themed a blitz ability is just awkward.

I suggest hull down as a double possible fix, to the cheesiness of axis mediums, to a better -medium tank balance, only after the heavy tank meta gets fixed. Axis tanks are already durable, being stationary and tougher won't break the current balance, it will though suggest a more passive gameplay, but this is already punished by allied superior range TDs.

Blitz can become doctrinal and mutually exclusive with panzer tactician if needed. Hull down becomes stock and will help stugs to fight off TDs in late game.

What do you think? It's a big change but it might be worth it.


make the weakest faction in game a lot worse against the comon 60TD Meta.. just to make OST complete obsolete .. sure why not:clap:

a the stug myth.... :D
25 Nov 2019, 17:00 PM
#3
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1776



make the weakest faction in game a lot worse against the comon 60TD Meta.. just to make OST complete obsolete .. sure why not:clap:

a the stug myth.... :D

Of course aur this suggests change, Jackson has no excuse to keep being as durable, it can be finally nerfed. But you didn't know that with such sarcasm.

Who am I to blame if people lack of imagination
25 Nov 2019, 23:35 PM
#4
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 668

And some people thought that watching the tourney and delicate yet very vocal suggestions from top players will make people think...
28 Nov 2019, 11:42 AM
#5
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 225 | Subs: 1



make the weakest faction in game a lot worse against the comon 60TD Meta.. just to make OST complete obsolete .. sure why not:clap:

a the stug myth.... :D


Hey, now you can hull down your tank so it gets shot even easier :)
28 Nov 2019, 12:03 PM
#6
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 1204

Agreed, Jacksons need a buff. With this they won’t even need to chase, just sit there and shoot.
28 Nov 2019, 12:07 PM
#7
avatar of Princeps

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2019, 11:42 AMGarrett


Hey, now you can hull down your tank so it gets shot even easier :)


what about hulldown that gives a passive selfrepair bonus? or stealth?
28 Nov 2019, 16:12 PM
#8
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1776

Actually hull down is a good way to make stugs be able to fight back jacksons, not in the classical way but instead using the range increase hull down provides to pair it up with anothers TDs, if a HD stug is shot from its front it will fire back. It's a low APM situation for the OH player but it's also very risky to let a tank sit like a stone. More often than not a pio squad must be nearby to provide repairs and the tank will eventually be moved because the allied will flank.

It's like a pak wall but resistant to indirect fire
28 Nov 2019, 17:52 PM
#9
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 1204

Actually hull down is a good way to make stugs be able to fight back jacksons, not in the classical way but instead using the range increase hull down provides to pair it up with anothers TDs, if a HD stug is shot from its front it will fire back. It's a low APM situation for the OH player but it's also very risky to let a tank sit like a stone. More often than not a pio squad must be nearby to provide repairs and the tank will eventually be moved because the allied will flank.

It's like a pak wall but resistant to indirect fire


So what happens when the Jackson fires at the stug from a front right/front left angle where the StuGG can’t depress horizontally to fire at the Jackson?
28 Nov 2019, 17:58 PM
#10
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 565

I'm against that change.
Blitzkrieg is a very good ability for both offense and defense and easy to use. Hull down is not, so thtis would be a decent nerf to OST tanks. Blitzkrieg also allows mediums to flank better and threaten TDs.
1 Dec 2019, 07:46 AM
#11
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 747

Nonsense and no.
Here we are already trying to improve blitz to counter 60td.

There is a reason hulldown is not used often, even in 4v4..
1 Dec 2019, 07:47 AM
#12
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 747

Agreed, Jacksons need a buff. With this they won’t even need to chase, just sit there and shoot.


Imo Jackson needs armor skirts upgrade choice. So it can bounce p4 shots from front more reliably!

Very frustrating p4 can blitz in and kill my expensive 60td
1 Dec 2019, 08:23 AM
#13
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 2

Blitzkrieg fits the theme of Ostheer because it's representing the early war part of the German Army. It doesn't make sense for OKW since they should be the ones with the more heavily defensive focus like the Wehrmacht in CoH.

Blitzkrieg is also a staple of German Armor as well as Panzer Tactician.

Without them they either get swarmed by Allied mediums or TDs.

Edit: Hulldown is also bad and needs a rework.
1 Dec 2019, 09:28 AM
#14
avatar of Aerohank

Posts: 2362 | Subs: 1

A hull-down Panther out ranges Jacksons so it's good on that vehicle. Ostwinds are also quite nice with Hull Down. On P4s it's rather 'meh' and it would make them a lot worse at flanking heavy tanks, which is not a nerf they deserve.
1 Dec 2019, 09:30 AM
#15
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 2

A hull-down Panther out ranges Jacksons. Panther and Ostwind are the two vehicles that can really benefit from Hull Down in my opionion. On P4s it's rather 'meh' and it would make them a lot worse at flanking heavy tanks.


Yes but fixed gun vehicles such as the Elefant, StuG and Brummbar are useless when hulled down.

That's why I said the ability needs to be reworked.

Also it's the only ability related to vehicles that requires outside assistance from infantry.

Tanks should in my opinion be able to dig themselves in instead of needing infantry.
1 Dec 2019, 18:29 PM
#16
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 454

Just buff the ability. Gives StuGs cautious movement, let tanks hull down themselves. Boom, the ability is no longer useless
1 Dec 2019, 22:38 PM
#17
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 2

Just buff the ability. Gives StuGs cautious movement, let tanks hull down themselves. Boom, the ability is no longer useless


Yeah something like a camouflaged static state where they turn a bit slower would be a good fix in my opinion.

And having the turreted tanks be able to hull themselves in whenever needed would make the ability at least 2 if not 3 times more useful and worth it instead of requiring infantry.
2 Dec 2019, 06:30 AM
#18
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 747

Correct me if wrong, but once hull down, your turret becomes a casemate.
Anyway this is too drastic change when blitz isnt even much escape artist now
2 Dec 2019, 06:37 AM
#19
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 2

Correct me if wrong, but once hull down, your turret becomes a casemate.
Anyway this is too drastic change when blitz isnt even much escape artist now


Turrets on tanks can still rotate so it's not a huge issue for them.

It is for fixed gun vehicles.
8 Dec 2019, 11:11 AM
#20
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 292



make the weakest faction in game a lot worse against the comon 60TD Meta.. just to make OST complete obsolete .. sure why not:clap:

a the stug myth.... :D

I'm pretty sure that hull down gives both panthers and stugs more than 60 range (62.5 maybe) + received damage bonus. But blitz is not as cheesy as beeing able to jump in/out of tanks instantly and repairing them.
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