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Racketen spam in the team games. A bit problematic.

25 Nov 2019, 07:00 AM
#1
avatar of Harry

Posts: 97

Okay, I'll be honest that I was trying to hold my horses of posting this one since I was having so much fun spamming racketen as OKW in team games. But, after recently return back to Allies, I found this Racketen spam thing seems to be, you know, overpower. Currently, the only effective way I have is calling for USF calliopes, which is not ideal since it is doctrinal and limited to one single faction. Katy is not effective since the racketens can retreat so quickly to avoid massive casualties. Anyway, ill leave this post as an open topic one. Please let me know if you have any way to counter the racketen blob. Or, feel free, just take this place to complain.

Final update:
For those who declear Katies is a good option.Go try it yourself and then you will know what I meant. Katy is good indeed at close range. But it is way too RNG based, and if you miss the first round of rockest,racketens will push forward and kill your karties.I have killed the opponents katy this way, and my katies were killed this way, and it is definitely not as easy as you think. Infantries spotting is a thing but can do nothing to keep the racketens away, especially when playing as UKF since you lack indirect blob killing tools. Racketens spamming is different now, compare to the old ages hide and seek, they are now directly following the infantries and able to use their extra 5 ranges to provide very powerful AT performances. As I said, I enjoy blobing racketen myself and not once, not twice, but more than 10 times, killing the entire enemy tanks forces without building any tank in team games as OKW.I'll explain more why Katy is way less reliable than you think in my third testing post, which will come up in a few days. In a general conclusion, Katy is the least reliable rocket launcher unit in the game because it is way too RNG base, even at the closest range. It is good at wiping things that can't retreat. But for things that can move fast and retreatable. It is a totaly different case. This is one of the reasons why it is rare to see Soviet players in teams put out Katies until they acknowledge there won't be anyone on his/her side to produce any calliope in high-level games.

I feel wired that some people questioning me for reasons that I post this one under the Balance. I have stated clear. I am considering this racketen spamming thing overpower both at the standpoint of being an OKW player and an allies player. And, of course, you won't understand it unless you go and try it yourself. It is way more satisfied than you think.

And for people who recommended smoke. I really appreciate your advice. But in realiay, it performances poorly, especially in high-level games, and even more when you play as UKF.
25 Nov 2019, 08:45 AM
#2
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1926

uhm?

Katj not good? its even better in close range aka "shotgun" than caliope

u only need to play clever with it.


rakten spam isnt a thing anymore since the cant sneak around...you must only support your tanks with infantry to spot them
25 Nov 2019, 08:59 AM
#3
avatar of Harry

Posts: 97

uhm?

Katj not good? its even better in close range aka "shotgun" than caliope

u only need to play clever with it.


rakten spam isnt a thing anymore since the cant sneak around...you must only support your tanks with infantry to spot them

Go try it yourself and then you will know what I meant. Katy is good indeed at close range. But it is way too RNG based, and if you miss the first round of rockest,racketens will push forward and kill your karties.I have killed the opponents katy this way, and my katies were killed this way, and it is definitely not as easy as you think. Infantries spotting is a thing but can do nothing to keep the racketens away, especially when playing as UKF since you lack indirect blob killing tools. Racketens spamming is different now, compare to the old ages hide and seek, they are now directly following the infantries and able to use their extra 5 ranges to provide very powerful AT performances. As I said, I enjoy blobing racketen myself and not once, not twice, but more than 10 times, killing the entire enemy tanks forces without building any tank in team games as OKW.
25 Nov 2019, 13:35 PM
#4
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2268

The are no one shot solutions in the whole game, except for the b4 but it's random AF or the Sturmtiger that's slow and wont kill full health models
25 Nov 2019, 15:06 PM
#5
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7081 | Subs: 1

Replay and gamemode. 2v2 isn't equal to 4v4.

The are no one shot solutions in the whole game, except for the b4 but it's random AF or the Sturmtiger that's slow and wont kill full health models


Grenade, snipers and flamers.

As for OPs problems, Katyushas are more than reliable against AT gun walls.
25 Nov 2019, 15:16 PM
#6
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 758

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2019, 07:00 AMHarry
Okay, I'll be honest that I was trying to hold my horses of posting this one since I was having so much fun spamming racketen as OKW in team games. But, after recently return back to Allies, I found this Racketen spam thing seems to be, you know, overpower. Currently, the only effective way I have is calling for USF calliopes, which is not ideal since it is doctrinal and limited to one single faction. Katy is not effective since the racketens can retreat so quickly to avoid massive casualties. Anyway, ill leave this post as an open topic one. Please let me know if you have any way to counter the racketen blob. Or, feel free, just take this place to complain.


For USF, alternatively a mortar or pack howi could help a bit. The mortar is pretty shite at doing damage but if the raketens are truly being blobbed it might do the trick. Smoke could be useful for screening.

As SOV, maybe Zis barrage. Maybe mortar. A little trickier without the pack howi. Katyusha is also an option if you're good with it, but I agree it isn't the wipe machine it gets made out to be here sometimes, and the closer you get with it the riskier it becomes to use; be careful there aren't any cloaked raketens spread around outside the blob.

As UKF you're kind of fucked tbh. Only thing I can think of is the Vickers will do good damage since weapon crews don't gain reduced RA while suppressed, but then I'm not actually sure if that applies to the Raketen since it's more like a MG team than an ATG crew. In UKF's case you probably just have to be really good with the infantry play, unfortunately. Maybe use commandos. Idk about land mattress.
25 Nov 2019, 15:27 PM
#7
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1926

katj is the best options wvs teamweopans spamers...in close range they WILL delete all your aiming targets with easy and woith no rection time for your oponent. i dont what u want more.
25 Nov 2019, 15:57 PM
#8
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2599

And this is on the balance sub because........
25 Nov 2019, 18:29 PM
#9
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 1

I prefer to build AT guns as a counter to raketspam
25 Nov 2019, 19:18 PM
#10
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817

The most effective way to avoid this strategy is to produce vehicles that have more than 640 hp and require more than 4 hits (or 2 volleys) to kill.
You probably also need to use infantry to effectively screen/scout for tanks.

The Katusha may have some RNG involved, but over the long term it can be quite efffective. Usually you should try to fire on units that are revealed, relatively close to the katusha and are under fire from small arms or vehiceles in order to maximize damage.

I do agree there isn't really a good counter for USF outside of doctrines with indirect fire. I find myself obligated to pick the calliope doctrine as it does provide a hard counter to strategies such as this which might be otherwise very hard to deal with.

Another effective counter can be smoke, to force attack ground, or WP which prevents firing and slows. The raketen is quite strong offensively but still suffers from losing 2+ models at a time to explosives if the gunners are targeted.

Raketens are quite strong but also quite vulnerable still. Probably the biggest differentiation is if you are able coordinate your units to overwhelm them at once and subsequently destroy the guns when they do get decrewed. If you are inflicting 290, 580, 870 manpower damage on your opponent surely you will gain a big advantage, especially if you can do it without losing a vehicle
25 Nov 2019, 21:19 PM
#11
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2387 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2019, 07:00 AMHarry
Katy is not effective since the racketens can retreat so quickly to avoid massive casualties.


If you position the katyusha well, it has the fastest first strike of any rocket arty in the game. So its actually very good at killing stuff like this, even if they can retreat. Just gotta move your Katy as close to minimum range as possible without risking it
25 Nov 2019, 21:37 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15146 | Subs: 7

And this is on the balance sub because........

...... if you lose, its balance problem, always - no exceptions.
25 Nov 2019, 21:51 PM
#13
avatar of Harry

Posts: 97

I'll reply one final time by updating the main post. (and the post is out)
26 Nov 2019, 07:02 AM
#14
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 225 | Subs: 1

What is the difference to allied or OH at gun spam? That they can retreat? They are also the most vulnerable at guns, and I have mine (vet4/5 sometimes( quite reliably killed by Katy’s long range quite often - just requires 1-2 rockets.
26 Nov 2019, 07:27 AM
#15
avatar of Grining Cat

Posts: 57

Hey Harry,

I struggled with raketen blob too, but I developed a save strategy to counter it.

If you opponent has 10 raketens just build 10 AT Guns yourself.

Tell your opponent to come mid and have a deadly AT gun blob versus AT gun blob shootout.

Send 8 At guns straight in against his At gun blob.

Flank with 2 others AT guns. It will be hard, but the flank will turn the tide for you.

Wins me every game bro :) .
Vaz
26 Nov 2019, 09:17 AM
#16
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 923

The pak howitzer can non doctrinal deal with this pretty easy. Especially if you factor in equivalent mp investment, not just 1 pak vs 1000mp in raketens. I think you need vet1 to do white phosphorous shots, but they are not the shitty watered down rounds that don't damage anything from the MH, they are the prenerf values that actually fuck shit up. so if the raketen blob gets a wif of one of these hits, it's down to 1hp for them usually. You sneak a couple bar sqauads in the retreat path and you can decrew the lot of them. Easier said than done, but it might be worth it.

The regular pak howie rounds will also do well from multiple paks

smoking the blob also helps. If smoke is working the way I think it works, any projectile that has to fire through the smoke will have a significantly reduced accuracy. Of course, a rocket could veer off course and hit something else :/
27 Nov 2019, 06:33 AM
#17
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 255

Permanently Banned
Harry, very good thread! We have the same opinion on arty.
katys are weak, stukas are op compared.
Katys dont hit shit, and if they hit, enemy can still retreat, plus needing it to shoot multiple bursts means its vulnerable to other artillery fire and tanks, while the stuka just shoots once and can pull back immidiately.
Stuka is the strongest art in the game. its funny how people always say katy is good and panzerwerfer > stuka.
U can shoot with the katy at one big blob and it doesnt hit anything. And then the blob retreats.
Katys need big buff!
27 Nov 2019, 12:46 PM
#18
avatar of Garrett

Posts: 225 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Nov 2019, 06:33 AMRitter
Harry, very good thread! We have the same opinion on arty.
katys are weak, stukas are op compared.
Katys dont hit shit, and if they hit, enemy can still retreat, plus needing it to shoot multiple bursts means its vulnerable to other artillery fire and tanks, while the stuka just shoots once and can pull back immidiately.
Stuka is the strongest art in the game. its funny how people always say katy is good and panzerwerfer > stuka.
U can shoot with the katy at one big blob and it doesnt hit anything. And then the blob retreats.
Katys need big buff!


Maybe don't use them long range only? Katy has insane alpha capabilities and the salvos actually mean that you have a higher chance of wiping retreating stuff if rockets overshoot...
27 Nov 2019, 13:30 PM
#19
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 269

Maybe allow all the rockets to land at once?
27 Nov 2019, 18:35 PM
#20
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 255

Permanently Banned
Maybe allow all the rockets to land at once?

thats not a katy anymore
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