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russian armor

Stationary PANTHER

24 Nov 2019, 18:35 PM
#21
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 54

The panther has td like accuracy and penetration with turret and 3x mg, speed of medium tanks, armour plus hp of heavy tanks, heavy crush.

Its expensive because of these reasons. And just because its expensive and ingnoring the other reasons as to why its so expensive its not allowed to mis?

Cant wait what they nerf in response on the panther.
you forgot the fact is fast as heck plus blitz and panzer tactician
24 Nov 2019, 19:15 PM
#22
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 571

you forgot the fact is fast as heck plus blitz and panzer tactician


True but i try to leave doctrines out of balancing a unit, thats why i left ptactician out. The blitz i did forget to mention.
24 Nov 2019, 23:52 PM
#23
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 176

A buff Panthers thread? Seriously?

But I have to agree that a vet3 accuracy buff wouldn't hurt anyone, it's a very expensive tank and vet3 is hard enough to justify it


No one here is asking for buff a vet 0 Panther or atleast thats not how I started the thread. But yea, vet3 accuracy buff is something most people are agreeing.
24 Nov 2019, 23:54 PM
#24
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 176



Stationary accuracy also rewards for good microing. It would help with a lot of those high tier player brawls where good players try to get those hits off at max range stopping just before panzer is ready to shoot again.


Exactly, that's the way Panthers are designed and meant to be used.
25 Nov 2019, 02:47 AM
#25
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2413 | Subs: 1


The only thing it truly lacks is a 20-30% accuracy bonus at vet 3, that virtually every other vehicle gets.


Do you know what the reasoning is behind that? Or have an idea what it might be anyway
25 Nov 2019, 05:59 AM
#26
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1140

I wonder does any other stats affect panther ability to land a hit? This costly tank misses so much more often than i know.
25 Nov 2019, 08:05 AM
#27
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 571

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2019, 05:59 AMmrgame2
I wonder does any other stats affect panther ability to land a hit? This costly tank misses so much more often than i know.


I doesnt miss any more then other mediums and premium mediums and heavies.

It does miss more then dedicated 60 range td,s or stugs. But those always stand still while shooting except the jackson ofcourse. Increasing acccuracy notably. A solution without changing stats would be stop to shoot. As intended.

The panther already has enough going for it as is. No changes needed other then use as intended.
25 Nov 2019, 08:55 AM
#28
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 176



I doesnt miss any more then other mediums and premium mediums and heavies.

It does miss more then dedicated 60 range td,s or stugs. But those always stand still while shooting except the jackson ofcourse. Increasing acccuracy notably. A solution without changing stats would be stop to shoot. As intended.

The panther already has enough going for it as is. No changes needed other then use as intended.


A simple yet effective solution would be just give it 20-30% accuracy boost at Vet3. So, players who only good enough to know how to use a Panther shall be rewarded.
25 Nov 2019, 09:07 AM
#29
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 2369 | Subs: 5

Do you know what the reasoning is behind that? Or have an idea what it might be anyway


My statement wasn't entirely correct, as I confused it with the reload bonus for a moment.

Only about half the vehicles get an accuracy bonus with veterancy, it seems rather random which ones do and which ones don't. Most medium tanks don't (Panzer IV, Cromwell, T-34s), but some do (M4 Sherman, EZ8, Panzer IV ausf.J). All TDs get it, including the SU-76M, but the StuG ausf.G doesn't. Conventional heavy tanks (Tiger, Tiger II, Pershing, IS-2) get a bonus too.

So it seems like the Panther simply happened to be in the half that didn't get it. Perhaps because the accuracy bonus may have been considered a special thing back when only the Eastern Front armies were around, conditions for which were blurred when the Western Front armies showed up, and it was simply never rectified.


On one hand I don't see a reason why the Panther absolutely shouldn't have it, but on the other hand Panther spam is already very strong in teamgames, so I wouldn't be too eager to buff it.
25 Nov 2019, 15:13 PM
#30
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 176



True but i try to leave doctrines out of balancing a unit, thats why i left ptactician out. The blitz i did forget to mention.




Do you know what the reasoning is behind that? Or have an idea what it might be anyway


jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2019, 05:59 AMmrgame2
I wonder does any other stats affect panther ability to land a hit? This costly tank misses so much more often than i know.




My statement wasn't entirely correct, as I confused it with the reload bonus for a moment.

Only about half the vehicles get an accuracy bonus with veterancy, it seems rather random which ones do and which ones don't. Most medium tanks don't (Panzer IV, Cromwell, T-34s), but some do (M4 Sherman, EZ8, Panzer IV ausf.J). All TDs get it, including the SU-76M, but the StuG ausf.G doesn't. Conventional heavy tanks (Tiger, Tiger II, Pershing, IS-2) get a bonus too.

So it seems like the Panther simply happened to be in the half that didn't get it. Perhaps because the accuracy bonus may have been considered a special thing back when only the Eastern Front armies were around, conditions for which were blurred when the Western Front armies showed up, and it was simply never rectified.


On one hand I don't see a reason why the Panther absolutely shouldn't have it, but on the other hand Panther spam is already very strong in teamgames, so I wouldn't be too eager to buff it.


I just created a poll for you guys to put in your input to see if changes are needed...
25 Nov 2019, 22:33 PM
#31
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 983



I doesnt miss any more then other mediums and premium mediums and heavies.

It does miss more then dedicated 60 range td,s or stugs. But those always stand still while shooting except the jackson ofcourse. Increasing acccuracy notably. A solution without changing stats would be stop to shoot. As intended.

The panther already has enough going for it as is. No changes needed other then use as intended.


I understand You haven't watched the championships. Allied tanks are cheaper and better. But You don't seem to see that. Panther is simply too expensive for what you get. Its cost should be similar to Jackson's or it should be buffed to make the game even.
25 Nov 2019, 23:16 PM
#32
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 571



I understand You haven't watched the championships. Allied tanks are cheaper and better. But You don't seem to see that. Panther is simply too expensive for what you get. Its cost should be similar to Jackson's or it should be buffed to make the game even.


Yes genius allied tanks are cheaper because allied tanks are not better. You need 2 minimum to take on a panther if for some reason you lack other at. No matter how you try and spin that its a fact that pound for pound the panther is a better tank hence it costs more.

Panther has better armour, hp, acc, pen then normal tanks. It has simaler rof, damage, moving acc, speed. It has heavy crush unlike allied mediums do. Only its target size and aoe on the main gun is worse.

So again how is it a worse tank then allied tanks? 2x t34,s cost more then a panther so why should they together not out preform a panther?

25 Nov 2019, 23:25 PM
#33
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 983



Yes genius allied tanks are cheaper because allied tanks are not better. You need 2 minimum to take on a panther if for some reason you lack other at. No matter how you try and spin that its a fact that pound for pound the panther is a better tank hence it costs more.

Panther has better armour, hp, acc, pen then normal tanks. It has simaler rof, damage, moving acc, speed. It has heavy crush unlike allied mediums do. Only its target size and aoe on the main gun is worse.

So again how is it a worse tank then allied tanks? 2x t34,s cost more then a panther so why should they together not out preform a panther?



They are better because they are cheaper and are not inferior while having many useful abilities. Starting with ram and finishing with repair crews and many many other including different types of smoke extra speed,etc. Hard to enumerate even. Panther is just a silly overpriced hybrid of strange features which can work only when you are ahead of your opponent anyway. On similar skill matchup allied tanks give you much better results for what you pay. That is why I believe that the thread makes sense and panther should be somehow buffed. I would give it more anty infantry capabilities (making it a slightly better comet).
25 Nov 2019, 23:32 PM
#34
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

Since people want to buff the panther so much I say sure buff its accuracy or whatever, but bring its AI down to other TDs (so nothing) and reduce its armour and HP to match other TDs (paper). Deal?
25 Nov 2019, 23:33 PM
#35
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3605 | Subs: 1

Since people want to buff the panther so much I say sure buff its accuracy or whatever, but bring its AI down to other TDs (so nothing) and reduce its armour and HP to match other TDs (paper). Deal?


50 range.
25 Nov 2019, 23:35 PM
#36
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

buff its accuracy or whatever

25 Nov 2019, 23:38 PM
#37
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7



50 range.

I wouldn't mind as long as there is no longer deus ex machina that doesn't even want to move away when infantry comes near.
25 Nov 2019, 23:40 PM
#38
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3605 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2019, 23:38 PMKatitof

I wouldn't mind as long as there is no longer deus ex machina that doesn't even want to move away when infantry comes near.


I don't understand
25 Nov 2019, 23:41 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15216 | Subs: 7



I don't understand

Didn't you implied range should also be brought to the level of other tds in reply to him?
25 Nov 2019, 23:42 PM
#40
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 983

Since people want to buff the panther so much I say sure buff its accuracy or whatever, but bring its AI down to other TDs (so nothing) and reduce its armour and HP to match other TDs (paper). Deal?


Maybe just make it cheaper. In my opinion Jackson=panther looking at performance, tech requirements and the package of abilities they get. I seriously don't understand the price difference, especially when one adds the crew into the equation.
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