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russian armor

reduce pop for soviet tanks and infantry

18 Nov 2019, 01:31 AM
#41
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 149

and it doesnt mean prove anything wrong I said. The players were just superior than to the axis players.
18 Nov 2019, 02:27 AM
#42
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 130

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 01:31 AMRitter
and it doesnt mean prove anything wrong I said. The players were just superior than to the axis players.


That's a laugh. They alternate armies between games. You play allies one game, axis the next.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/509612608
18 Nov 2019, 02:40 AM
#43
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 291 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 01:31 AMRitter
and it doesnt mean prove anything wrong I said. The players were just superior than to the axis players.


Yes, and when the Axis players win it's because Axis is totally overpowered.
18 Nov 2019, 03:25 AM
#44
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6307 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 01:31 AMRitter
and it doesnt mean prove anything wrong I said. The players were just superior than to the axis players.


:facepalm:
18 Nov 2019, 04:04 AM
#45
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 837

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 01:31 AMRitter
and it doesnt mean prove anything wrong I said. The players were just superior than to the axis players.


Did you go to the same school as ullumulu by any chance?
18 Nov 2019, 04:27 AM
#46
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670



Soviets won all the games they were picked in the final rounds of the WCS tournament. I don't have a full list, so they might have lost one in the lower brackets, but they won 4 out 4 games they were picked in the final, and the fifth was USF rear echelon spam. I don't think there was a single axis win in either the final or 3rd place decider.


I been saying the same things.
Soviet has been the best faction for many years.
Quietly unnoticed but is true.
18 Nov 2019, 07:07 AM
#47
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 04:27 AMmrgame2


I been saying the same things.
Soviet has been the best faction for many years.
Quietly unnoticed but is true.


That's straight up because they had 2 tiers of unit: literally useless and crutch level. The useless units have been being brought into a 3rd category in the middle but the top tier shit insnt really moving around much. Things like cons and the t34 were iconicly garbage (not in a good way) and are now both quite decent. M42 AT gun, same story. The balance team is doing a fantastic job of lifting the many under performing units, but are leaving the over performing units (penals and su85 as examples) in the Soviet lineup. The outlier (cause there always is one) would be the maxim, granted, their last buff did help it an awful lot even though I didn't except it to and was quite vocal about that (not afraid to admit when I'm wrong) but it can still be countered frontally with Volks

Meanwhile other factions are seeing their crutches removed and less so their uderperforming brought up- like Tommies who now can and will lose straight up while in green cover (and getting the vaunted cover bonus) to sturms charging across no cover.

Then of course there is okw. If you discount the gutting nerf that volks received the only memorable nerfs they have actually received were to the units that were horribly over buffed in the first place


But on despite that tangent that's my assessment of why the Soviet are so strong.
18 Nov 2019, 07:19 AM
#48
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

Yes 6 men cons more than held their own in the WC19 against Volks, just need to stay behind cover or at distance.

7 men cons is almost too good at this moment.
18 Nov 2019, 07:38 AM
#49
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6307 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 04:27 AMmrgame2


I been saying the same things.
Soviet has been the best faction for many years.
Quietly unnoticed but is true.


Like any other faction depending on meta.

Soviet and OH traded places on 1v1 when EFA was the only thing. Teamgames were dominated by OH (Axis).
Once OKW was released, OKW basically broke teamgames, OH had good synergy but USF dominated 1v1 followed by SU. SU bullied OKW while OH bullied OH. USF remained useless till they made the Jackson 640 HP.
It still somehow work on 2v2 if you were not facing 2xOKW or play extremely early all in strats.

SU dominated 1v1 once they buff OH and nerfed USF (or banned Rifle company). Decent against OH and bullying OKW with maxim spam.
OKW still broke teamgames till the rework and release of UKF.

UKF release, bad on 1v1, broke teamgames. OH/OKW 1v1 meta once they started with the nerfs on maxim spam and prior to rework on Penals. OH mobile def sniper/222 meta and/or Scavenge Meta.

Then comes 1v1 UKF reign on everything, from teamgames with PArty Cover and AEC on 1v1. I forgot and at some point USF broke teamgames with CalliOP.
First penal rework made them OP with flamer as well.

Then it came PTRS penals. And we enter the last year of changes as well.


ALL factions had been the best at some point. At some gamemode. Or skillbracket.

Top16 meta is not the same as top50 meta, not equal to top100 meta and everything below top200 can be whatever.


While in other tournaments certain factions had been clear dominant from a gameplay perspective, the final series was at least heavily balanced and all games had no clear winner whatsoever (except final one).

SPOILERS: Analysis Finals (in case there is another thread and need to find this part)

I jumped towards the last ace game on the Von Asten vs Jove series. It was funny reading IS2 comeback when OKW was dominating and the sole reason Jove hold a Tiger, Puma and P2 with 2 ATG and a T70 was perfect mine location. Mines basically stopped 3 STG Volks push (which removed any support on the Tiger), killed a Puma and later forced a P2 kill. Then the game favour Soviets with plenty of chance for a comeback. If any of all games (finals) showed was a lack of confidence on utilizing JPIV against Su85 on full open maps. +300f on bank and relying on double rak for Tiger support.

-1st game on final series: OKW dominating till massive blunder by gifting the rak against first T3485. Game state reset in favour of SU. Fast forward, Tiger kills T3485. It's Puma + Tiger vs T85 + Su85. OKW had better infantry comp. It goes for the PIV (JPIV was the better option). After some chasing without infantry support, miss micro and bad RNG, they didn't manage to kill the retreating T85 and trade a vet Tiger for vet 0 T85.
When i said missmicro, cause first it wasted the killing blow on the Su85, Puma didn't stunlocked the Su85 or killed the T85 with aimed shot.

-2nd game: horrible start for OKW and recover with Flak HT play. Still on backfoot till Tiger.
Same mistake as previous games. Ignoring JPIV and holding resources for PV. Also recrewing a rak with Obers.
At 200f he decided to get a JPIV and that manage to get him back into the game but he was already too drained on VPs. 50/100 more VPs in the bank and he was turning that game around. Smoke plane might had saved the vet 2 JPIV.

Note: 90% of Twitch chat screaming waste of munition on AT arty when the Tiger popup when he had nothing to stop it (single 45mm AT gun and T34-76, no Penals with PTRS, no snare) and that bought enough time to get an Su85. Game winning move and everyone except 2 players i could remember (Orange and someone from Ruka clan) understanding what was happening.

-3rd game: how to throw a Super Bowl 25 point lead game.
From wiping a WC, RET and LT to losing a P2, Kubel and Falls.

-4th game: 26 min was the Championship move. Unfortunately couldn't block with PIV and the other 2 were late to the party. The correct move (pushing before IS2) unfortunate execution.

34min, 2nd Championship move. Basically what happened. TWP! TWP!!! AARRRGGHHH! Use Blitz! On the other PIV! OH SHIT RNG main gun destroy. Well, not bad, few VP but better army comp and vet 3 PIV. CRAP! He forgot the PIV!! AARRGGHH!!

18 Nov 2019, 07:42 AM
#50
avatar of porkloin

Posts: 130

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 07:19 AMmrgame2
Yes 6 men cons more than held their own in the WC19 against Volks, just need to stay behind cover or at distance.

7 men cons is almost too good at this moment.


Prior to the buff cons were still a significant strategic win by overwhelming the field with unbleedable HP, and buying huge windows for t-70 and the combat engineers to do work. The downside was that they didn't have a strong tactical showing, and so everyone cried and cried.

The 7 man buff not only gave them an extra model, and cover buffs, but made them doubly impossible to bleed.

At least now every other thread isn't "conscripts are worthless!!!" anymore. It's hard to argue which is the better situation.
18 Nov 2019, 08:03 AM
#51
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6375 | Subs: 1

...
the sole reason Jove hold a Tiger, Puma and P2 with 2 ATG and a T70 was perfect mine location. Mines basically stopped 3 STG Volks push (which removed any support on the Tiger), killed a Puma and later forced a P2 kill...

That simply demonstrates how overburden SP are and how expensive/high cost they are for minesweeper duties.

They OKW player is either forced to use SP a high value unit with a high pop on support duties or take a chance with mines.
18 Nov 2019, 08:23 AM
#52
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 378

This post w o k e

Nuff said
18 Nov 2019, 12:41 PM
#53
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

Yes top players are OP and can make best of every situations.

It is also in line with their choices, like their lack of faith in Jp4, in P5, in T4, in Wehr, in Grens combined arms, in Pg with shreks.

Thus as a lower level player wishing to play less competitively, i find the Axis, Wehr still lacking. Or as some said, Allies factions got buffed at their low and high end.

The WC19, the 2v2 WC18, results seems to tally ho. I think it has always been the balancing is in view from Allies first. The old theory of Axis heavy armor suprememacy is still intact with some here. They are some who think Pershing is squishy and Tiger is click to win still.

As such the next big patch needs to seriously consider 60TD and Axis T4. It has been 60TD gets strong on stock and vet in conjunction with Axis heavy nerfs. Like i been saying, lets step back from these double whammy nerf. The impact is doubled.

Axis is in such tough nerfed state, that top players wont mind going with the same meta, okw grand offensive tiger. Opening up themselves for predicatibility and counters. I seen more unit variety in Allies plays this time, imo.
18 Nov 2019, 14:54 PM
#54
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1



Prior to the buff cons were still a significant strategic win by overwhelming the field with unbleedable HP, and buying huge windows for t-70 and the combat engineers to do work. The downside was that they didn't have a strong tactical showing, and so everyone cried and cried.

The 7 man buff not only gave them an extra model, and cover buffs, but made them doubly impossible to bleed.

At least now every other thread isn't "conscripts are worthless!!!" anymore. It's hard to argue which is the better situation.
I don't think you know what bleed is.... Any models dropped count as bleed and as one of the largest non weapon crew target sizes cons absolutely bleed especially without on field healing ( and that in base healing costing 250mp)
The tactical showing is what they were supposed to be bringing to the table, it certainly wasn't combat prowess.

And the extra model mostly offsets the extra bleed they receive due to enemy weapon upgrades.

You are making it seem like the 7 man upgrade was an warranted buff on an already over performing unit. It wasn't. It was a much needed scaling buff for an out paced unit that was supposed to be the heart of their army.
18 Nov 2019, 16:10 PM
#55
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 149

7 men upgrade is overpriced in ammo, and probably costs u more pop, so u can just as good make another conscript instead of upgrading to 7 men.


18 Nov 2019, 16:27 PM
#56
avatar of CreativeName

Posts: 58

PLayercard pls...
7man upgrade is simply the most cost effective upgrade in the game.
kinda hilarious how a fucking troll creates a thread with 56 posts, keep it up coh2.org fellas
18 Nov 2019, 16:44 PM
#57
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6375 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Nov 2019, 16:10 PMRitter
7 men upgrade is overpriced in ammo, and probably costs u more pop, so u can just as good make another conscript instead of upgrading to 7 men.



Check the bonus it provides. The upgrade is extremely good and part of the reason way conscripts build are back.
18 Nov 2019, 21:11 PM
#58
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1


7man upgrade is simply the most cost effective upgrade in the game.

kinda has to be given how late it shows up or it wouldnt generate value.
18 Nov 2019, 21:37 PM
#59
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 662

I feel that Soviets are fine. Would only make engies a bit more expensive as 170 is a joke imo.
18 Nov 2019, 22:10 PM
#60
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1152

It will be great, if Red Army finally doesn't need to rely on doctrinal mediums, like T-34-85 or M4A2(76)W, because there is no alternative in core tech.
IOW - bring T-34 to the level of other core mediums, and give it something unique (like armor for Panzer IV or good moving accuracy for M4A3 "Sherman"), so T-34 won't be just a free XP in late game. Of course price should be increased to 100 or 110 fuel as compensation to buff.

P.S. Soviet infantry seems mainly fine for me.
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