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russian armor

"For Mother Russia" (sprinting while in combat)

15 Nov 2019, 10:57 AM
#1
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 60

At 25th september OKW Valiant Assault was nerfed. There is a text in patchnote, which tells that the same change will appeal to "For Mother Russia" ability in "next mini patch".
We got 1 balance patch and two hotfixes after that and FMR performs at the same level as before.
Can anybody tell what's happened?
15 Nov 2019, 10:59 AM
#2
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 531 | Subs: 1

People realised that FMR only applies to squads with considerably less long range firepower with no access to panzershrecks?
15 Nov 2019, 11:12 AM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1

The assault abilities currently can very easily secure squad wipes.

Imo DPS increase should be replaced by target size/armor bonuses.
15 Nov 2019, 13:26 PM
#4
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 60

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 11:12 AMVipper
The assault abilities currently can very easily secure squad wipes.

Imo DPS increase should be replaced by target size/armor bonuses.


DPS increase is fine as long as shocktroops are not sprinting. Main problem is their potential under this ability on small maps.
Crossroads is a good example.
15 Nov 2019, 13:31 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1



DPS increase is fine as long as shocktroops are not sprinting. Main problem is their potential under this ability on small maps.
Crossroads is a good example.

I disagree faster movement is fine as long as it does to result to easy wipes. Would rather have DPS bonus replaced by defensive ones and leave the faster movement.
15 Nov 2019, 13:42 PM
#6
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

Can anybody tell what's happened?


Basically we just forgot.

Changing Valiant Assault was a priority because of how well it synergised with the power of the improved Falls. I consider FMR with sprinting Shocks and Penals with +50% DPS to be overpowered too, but it's not as big of a problem as the commander is rarely used (as opposed to Luftwaffe now).
15 Nov 2019, 13:49 PM
#7
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 60

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 13:31 PMVipper

I disagree faster movement is fine as long as it does to result to easy wipes. Would rather have DPS bonus replaced by defensive ones and leave the faster movement.


I don't mean removing a faster movement, I mean that it should happen just like with Valiant Assault:
Shocks sprint until get under fire and everything is fine.
15 Nov 2019, 13:51 PM
#8
avatar of YeltsinDeathBrigades

Posts: 60



Basically we just forgot.

Changing Valiant Assault was a priority because of how well it synergised with the power of the improved Falls. I consider FMR with sprinting Shocks and Penals with +50% DPS to be overpowered too, but it's not as big of a problem as the commander rarely sees any use (as opposed to Luftwaffe now).


Thanks for the answer.
Are you guys planning to change FMR or should I just drop that thing in patchnotes from mind?
15 Nov 2019, 14:09 PM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1



I don't mean removing a faster movement, I mean that it should happen just like with Valiant Assault:
Shocks sprint until get under fire and everything is fine.

My point is that imo all "assault type" abilities should have their DPS increase replaced by defensive bonuses and vice versa.
15 Nov 2019, 16:41 PM
#10
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 149

Currently shocks with FMR sprint and they can't fire on the move with 50% acc bonus. This is good for forcing enemy off the field as you can get to an enemy unit quickly and it has to retreat. Currently shocks with FMR can't chase the retreating squad because they can't continue to fire at it. If combat presence removes the sprint from shocks, I think they will be able to follow/chase retreating squad for a short time with 50% extra accy resulting in more wipes.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.
15 Nov 2019, 18:12 PM
#11
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

Currently shocks with FMR sprint and they can't fire on the move with 50% acc bonus. This is good for forcing enemy off the field as you can get to an enemy unit quickly and it has to retreat. Currently shocks with FMR can't chase the retreating squad because they can't continue to fire at it. If combat presence removes the sprint from shocks, I think they will be able to follow/chase retreating squad for a short time with 50% extra accy resulting in more wipes.

Please, correct me if I'm wrong.


I don't know what's more terrifying: Shocks with barely any moving accuracy penalty or PTRS Penals sprinting to satchel your tank. :guyokay:
15 Nov 2019, 18:35 PM
#12
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 62



I don't know what's more terrifying: Shocks with barely any moving accuracy penalty or PTRS Penals sprinting to satchel your tank. :guyokay:

Por que no los dos?
*b4s raining down overhead*
15 Nov 2019, 20:46 PM
#13
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



Basically we just forgot.

Changing Valiant Assault was a priority because of how well it synergised with the power of the improved Falls. I consider FMR with sprinting Shocks and Penals with +50% DPS to be overpowered too, but it's not as big of a problem as the commander is rarely used (as opposed to Luftwaffe now).


Are you planning to fix the UKF "Assault" too ?
I mean pls do it.
15 Nov 2019, 21:24 PM
#14
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 339

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 20:46 PMJilet


Are you planning to fix the UKF "Assault" too ?
I mean pls do it.


Do you mean Assault Operation? That one is not as strong as VA or FMR... For 100mun only your Tommies are affected, Commandos in the same doctrine are left out (would be way better for them).

...

FMR basically let your shocks sprint into range, stop and shot, because they can't shoot while sprinting. Accordingly Penals can get closer to get a satchel charge off. Thus both squads will leave less men at their assault and more probabaqly do damage or force off enemy troops. Look at the CP requirements of the different abilities. FMR comes at 6 CPs and is meant to help these troops to get close when there is a lot of AI on the field that makes their live pretty hard. Imagine it would be there when you get your first shocks already... Oh man, that would be a whole different thing. If you want to nerf FMR I would make a ranged ability out of it instead of beeing global (like cover to cover). KW-1 buff recently made this doctrine somehow playable, nerfing FMR to hard will change that. While not beeing an aggressive early game doctrine it is not a good lategame doctrine either because it is missing a strong lategame tank or offmap. So what is its role? Its only real doctrinal powerspike is when you get your first KW-1 in addition to FMR, nerf one and its gone.

I always thought VA and cover to cover are the best abilities of this type. They come in somehow strong commanders while not beeing too expensive for their effect (affecting different types of infantry, especially units like rangers or falls).
16 Nov 2019, 02:33 AM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3212 | Subs: 1

Would cooldown be better than increased accuracy? It wouldn't effect shocks quite as much but would still help penals a lot and cons correct? Durability is a route too but could certainly over stack with shocks.
16 Nov 2019, 09:25 AM
#16
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 449

Would cooldown be better than increased accuracy? It wouldn't effect shocks quite as much but would still help penals a lot and cons correct? Durability is a route too but could certainly over stack with shocks.


Conscript DPS is hampered mostly by windup/winddown times iirc

The best thing for conscripts is accuracy. Unfortunately that's the case for most other units too.
16 Nov 2019, 11:03 AM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13757 | Subs: 7



Conscript DPS is hampered mostly by windup/winddown times iirc

The best thing for conscripts is accuracy. Unfortunately that's the case for most other units too.

Conscript DPS is hampered by balance exclusively.

Stats are not relevant here, end outcome is and stats are to match the latter.
16 Nov 2019, 23:21 PM
#18
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 344



Do you mean Assault Operation? That one is not as strong as VA or FMR... For 100mun only your Tommies are affected, Commandos in the same doctrine are left out (would be way better for them).

...

FMR basically let your shocks sprint into range, stop and shot, because they can't shoot while sprinting. Accordingly Penals can get closer to get a satchel charge off. Thus both squads will leave less men at their assault and more probabaqly do damage or force off enemy troops. Look at the CP requirements of the different abilities. FMR comes at 6 CPs and is meant to help these troops to get close when there is a lot of AI on the field that makes their live pretty hard. Imagine it would be there when you get your first shocks already... Oh man, that would be a whole different thing. If you want to nerf FMR I would make a ranged ability out of it instead of beeing global (like cover to cover). KW-1 buff recently made this doctrine somehow playable, nerfing FMR to hard will change that. While not beeing an aggressive early game doctrine it is not a good lategame doctrine either because it is missing a strong lategame tank or offmap. So what is its role? Its only real doctrinal powerspike is when you get your first KW-1 in addition to FMR, nerf one and its gone.

I always thought VA and cover to cover are the best abilities of this type. They come in somehow strong commanders while not beeing too expensive for their effect (affecting different types of infantry, especially units like rangers or falls).


There are too many wrong here. Assault also effects commandos and Tommies & Commandos running and gunning with double Brens is absurd.
17 Nov 2019, 00:35 AM
#19
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

Assault doesn't give sprint, but a slight movement bonus.

Affects all infantry units.

It costs 70 munitions, not 100 munitions.

It's also only gives +15% accuracy, compared to +25% for VA and +50% for FTML.
17 Nov 2019, 01:36 AM
#20
avatar of general_gawain

Posts: 339

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Nov 2019, 23:21 PMJilet


There are too many wrong here. Assault also effects commandos and Tommies & Commandos running and gunning with double Brens is absurd.


lol, thanks to you and DerbyHat. I never used it when playing brits, because the description is completely wrong. Its wrong here at coh2.org in the updated abiliy guide too. So maybe its not on par with VA and FMR, but its way better than I thougt.
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