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russian armor

what kills faster firefly or SU85?

14 Nov 2019, 21:57 PM
#1
14 Nov 2019, 22:10 PM
#2
14 Nov 2019, 23:16 PM
#3
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 275

...
I'd recommend getting the coh2dps program for questions like this (it's only a little out of date), but here's what I have:

Firefly does 200 damage every 8.25 seconds
SU-85 does 160 damage every 5.65 seconds

So, SU-85 has a higher anti-vehicle DPS, but lower penetration. It gains penetration with vet, surpassing the Firefly. The Firefly instead gains damage, so its DPS and alpha strike ability are improved more with vet.

The answer to your question depends on the health and armor of the target, as well as the veterancy of the TD.
15 Nov 2019, 01:09 AM
#4
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

...
I'd recommend getting the coh2dps program for questions like this (it's only a little out of date), but here's what I have:

Firefly does 200 damage every 8.25 seconds
SU-85 does 160 damage every 5.65 seconds

So, SU-85 has a higher anti-vehicle DPS, but lower penetration. It gains penetration with vet, surpassing the Firefly. The Firefly instead gains damage, so its DPS and alpha strike ability are improved more with vet.

The answer to your question depends on the health and armor of the target, as well as the veterancy of the TD.


Where can I get this "coh2dps program" from?
15 Nov 2019, 01:11 AM
#5
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

It really depends on the situation. For example firefly needs vision in order to make damage, SU85 has it's own vision. So in a situation where FF has vision and enemy tank can't move fast(damage engine, blocked) i would say FF will finish it quicker. SU85 might work better if the enemy tank is not damage engine. Soviets have better vision option then brit in my opinion tho, generally speaking.
15 Nov 2019, 01:27 AM
#6
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 275



Where can I get this "coh2dps program" from?


I forgot where to officially get it, but here's a link to my copy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ioocf34d9sq778f/coh2dpsnewui.html?dl=0
15 Nov 2019, 02:00 AM
#7
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1



I forgot where to officially get it, but here's a link to my copy: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ioocf34d9sq778f/coh2dpsnewui.html?dl=0


Is this the same as this ?

https://coh2db.com/stats/

15 Nov 2019, 02:06 AM
#8
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6313 | Subs: 1

Answering the question:

It depends on the armor and HP on the target mostly.

For example:

320HP HT will die faster to the Su85.
400HP Puma will die faster to the FF.

In this cases pen doesn't matter. In the first case, both units require the same amount of reload cycles. In the 2nd case, the Su85 needs 2 reloads while the FF only needs one.

At 560 HP, FF is marginally better.
At 640 HP the Su85.

So on and so on.
15 Nov 2019, 08:55 AM
#9
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6399 | Subs: 1

FF also have tullips. It can delete a medium with one reload if both land.
15 Nov 2019, 09:15 AM
#10
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

Depends on vet and hp pool but generally FF kills higher hp pool tank faster
15 Nov 2019, 12:28 PM
#11
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1513

Depends on vet and hp pool but generally FF kills higher hp pool tank faster


No because FF bounces a lot on Axis heavies meanwhile SU 85 gets extra pen with vet.

SU 85 vet 0 far pen: 220
SU 85 vet 3 far pen: 286

Firefly vet 0 far pen: 210
Firefly vet 3 far pen: 210

If we take the example of KT

SU 85 vet 0 and 3 chance to hit at max range: 100%
SU 85 vet 0 and 3 chance to penetrate: 58,6 and 76,2%

So if we factor in chance to bounce on average a shot from the SU 85 will do 93,76 damage and at vet 3 121,92.

The KT has 1280 HP so it will on average take
13 reloads (reload+ ready and fire aim time) at 5.65 or
11 reloads (reload+ ready and fire aim time) at 4.57 (vet3) to kill it.

Which makes TTK.

Vet0 SU 85: 73,45 seconds
Vet3 SU 85: 50.27 seconds

Now the same with FF

Chance to hit at max range 100%

Chance to pen at vet 0 and 3: 56%

Average damage per shot vet 0: 112
Average damage per shot vet 3: 134.4

So at vet 0 it takes 11 reloads (reload+ ready and fire aim time) and on vet 3 9 reloads to kill the KT on average.

TTK:
90.65 seconds at vet 0
56.25 seconds at vet 3
15 Nov 2019, 13:45 PM
#12
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

that's why i said it depends, for example a VET 3 FF WILL KILL A Panther IN 4 shoots with 6,5 second reload , as su 85 will take 6 with 4.5 second reload

it always depends on the hp poll and by what number it can be divided
15 Nov 2019, 14:36 PM
#13
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1513

that's why i said it depends, for example a VET 3 FF WILL KILL A Panther IN 4 shoots with 6,5 second reload , as su 85 will take 6 with 4.5 second reload

it always depends on the hp poll and by what number it can be divided


You forget that the SU 85 has more penetration and that a Panther has a pretty realistic chance to actually bounce a FF, especially after the Panther hits vet2.

The chance of a vet 3 FF hitting 4 penetrating shots in a row against a vet 2 Panther are only around 28%. Meanwhile the chance of a vet 3 SU 85 to hit 6 penetrating shots in a row is 100% because it has 286 far pen at vet 3 and the Panther armour is 286.
15 Nov 2019, 14:57 PM
#14
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 154

the rocket always misses, if not the first one the second one will, its deisgned in a way that it will miss some shots
15 Nov 2019, 14:58 PM
#15
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 154

and they area totaly over priced. U have to pay for upgrade 75 and for using it. U pay double!
15 Nov 2019, 15:01 PM
#16
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1513

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 14:57 PMRitter
the rocket always misses, if not the first one the second one will, its deisgned in a way that it will miss some shots


Both rockets can hit if you aim well against heavy tanks (Ele, Tiger, KT, JT, Sturmtiger). Against medium tanks I agree, it's next to impossible to hit with both rockets.
15 Nov 2019, 15:12 PM
#17
avatar of SneakEye
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 495 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 14:58 PMRitter
and they area totaly over priced. U have to pay for upgrade 75 and for using it. U pay double!

September 2019 Balance Update:
- 60-Pound Tulip Rockets upgrade cost from 50 to 30; firing cost remains the same.
15 Nov 2019, 15:13 PM
#18
15 Nov 2019, 22:42 PM
#19
avatar of Grim

Posts: 756

I think the SU85 is a better TD but once you have more than one the vehicle pathing increases the micro needed exponentially.

Whereas the turreted firefly can still take the shot even if the hull of the tank is 360'ing around a single piece of fence.
15 Nov 2019, 22:48 PM
#20
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3216 | Subs: 1

I'd say overall the FF is the superior TD, but in certain cases (map/target dependant) the su85s increased pen with vet or higher RoF on lane maps reigns supreme. So they both have their own role imo.
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