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russian armor

Is Tiger/Ace an AI or AT tank?

15 Nov 2019, 06:52 AM
#61
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670


But you seem to be the only one that thinks it's inadequate. Perhaps you are using it improperly? It's not an invulnerable monster like propaganda would lead you to believe,a great and reliable tank, but not a solo game winner


Imo it is inadequate compared to Is2 and Pershing.
Because i start practicing using Tiger (ace).

Only then i noticed:
Is2 is a better complete all rounder
Pershing is a better Tiger.

I think all weakness brought up are fair and worth a look.

Because out of habit we let Tiger continue as it, dont mean it is suffering.

For a period Tiger went unused. Subconsciously they knew its not worthy. How many here are using Tiger often? Seems a lot of active posters are play allies more.


Let also see this weekend games where things still are.

15 Nov 2019, 06:58 AM
#62
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

Instead of victim blaming mrgame2, lets look back at the issues.

Is tiger rof that high to mitigate its turret which is closer to casemate design than generalist?

Is tiger gun that much powerful to be restricted to a casemate design?

Is tiger armorhp that higher over its allies heavies?

Is tiger durability that much higher to deserve the 60td hardcounters it faces?

Is tiger that much cheaper to be made with such restrictions?
15 Nov 2019, 07:08 AM
#63
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 531 | Subs: 1

How many times do we have to tell you this, old man?

Traverse the hull
Its RoF is better and results in lower TTK on almost all targets

So yes. The answer to all your hyperbole is a four page long exasperated yes
15 Nov 2019, 07:23 AM
#64
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1

You are forgetting that each tank belongs to a different army and each represents that army's doctrine. The Pershing while quicker is the squishiest heavy tank of all, the is-2 is a very strong tank, but shoots slower and is supported by economy units(and is also only in 2 commanders, meaning it's a more meaningful choice going is-2) the tiger is adding more to your lineup and is in something like 5 or 6 commanders meaning it's easier to fit into your playstyle. Additionally the tiger starts with the most range but It's not just about raw stats. It's how each one interacts with its own army as much as enemy armies.

Tbh though I'm not sure why I'm even bothering anymore... You don't WANT to look past the surface
15 Nov 2019, 07:53 AM
#65
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

How many times do we have to tell you this, old man?

Traverse the hull
Its RoF is better and results in lower TTK on almost all targets

So yes. The answer to all your hyperbole is a four page long exasperated yes


Let's not take ageism.

Traverse the hull, yes, but as i said, is the extra baby sitting fair, does the gun do extra damage or have good range?

How higher is rof, another extra shot after 3 shots? What about switching targets?

Its all about cost effectiveness, and i just discovered tiger adds another bad egg into Wehr lineup. Hence this sharing
15 Nov 2019, 08:03 AM
#66
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13757 | Subs: 7


Is tiger rof that high to mitigate its turret which is closer to casemate design than generalist?

Yes. All other heavies have less firepower and equally slow turret.
Learn to micro hull.
Is tiger gun that much powerful to be restricted to a casemate design?

You confused tiger with elephant.
Is tiger armorhp that higher over its allies heavies?

Yes.
Is tiger durability that much higher to deserve the 60td hardcounters it faces?

Yes.
Is tiger that much cheaper to be made with such restrictions?

Yes.
jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 06:58 AMmrgame2
Instead of victim blaming mrgame2, lets look back at the issues.

If you want to look at actually issue, go to the bathroom and look into the mirror.
That's the biggest and only issue with tiger.

Also, congrats on masterful troll thread.
15 Nov 2019, 08:05 AM
#67
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

You are forgetting that each tank belongs to a different army and each represents that army's doctrine. The Pershing while quicker is the squishiest heavy tank of all, the is-2 is a very strong tank, but shoots slower and is supported by economy units(and is also only in 2 commanders, meaning it's a more meaningful choice going is-2) the tiger is adding more to your lineup and is in something like 5 or 6 commanders meaning it's easier to fit into your playstyle. Additionally the tiger starts with the most range but It's not just about raw stats. It's how each one interacts with its own army as much as enemy armies.

Tbh though I'm not sure why I'm even bothering anymore... You don't WANT to look past the surface


Oh yes i fully are into unit composition, has always been my stating point. Hence im sadden to personally realise tiger is another Wehr failing point in this aspect.

We all agree cost ineffective of Wehr t4 and now even the callins are questionable compared to allies.

Please dont say a 960hp Pershing is squishy. It also have the armor, speed and target size strength. Its simply a better Tiger, don't you agree?
15 Nov 2019, 08:07 AM
#68
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 531 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:05 AMmrgame2


Oh yes i fully are into unit composition, has always been my stating point. Hence im sadden to personally realise tiger is another Wehr failing point in this aspect.

We all agree cost ineffective of Wehr t4 and now even the callins are questionable compared to allies.

Please dont say a 960hp Pershing is squishy. It also have the armor, speed and target size strength. Its simply a better Tiger, don't you agree?


Nope

Four pages of people pointedly not agreeing with you now
15 Nov 2019, 08:09 AM
#69
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:03 AMKatitof


Yes. All other heavies have less firepower and equally slow turret.
Learn to micro hull.

You confused tiger with elephant.

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

If you want to look at actually issue, go to the bathroom and look into the mirror.
That's the biggest and only issue with tiger.

Also, congrats on masterful troll thread.


And all heavies get turret tracking vet. See this my findings brought out for awareness.

Effectively, tiger isnt it more close to elefant than generalist, but without the pen, range and damage. If anything, it is a brumbafant than upsized p4.
15 Nov 2019, 08:15 AM
#70
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13757 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:09 AMmrgame2


And all heavies get turret tracking vet. See this my findings brought out for awareness..


Which heavies?
Because IS-2 is its role equivalent and it does not have any traverse vet and all the other heavies, like KV-2 or KT have even slower turret traverse and lower mobility and most certainly, worse guns(minus KT ofc).

Only think you've brought out awareness for is how much you need help in this game.
15 Nov 2019, 08:15 AM
#71
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670



Nope

Four pages of people pointedly not agreeing with you now


I dont see anyone disagree Pershing is tigering better than Tiger

If Pershing is squishy, than so it panther. Panther needs vet2 armor bonus to edge Pershing armor. I know before you say callin, im just pointing out units as unit themselves.
15 Nov 2019, 08:19 AM
#72
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13757 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:15 AMmrgame2


I dont see anyone disagree Pershing is tigering better than Tiger

What does that even mean?
Pershing is premium med with great AI. That's certainly not the description of Tiger.

If Pershing is squishy, than so it panther. Panther needs vet2 armor bonus to edge Pershing armor. I know before you say callin, im just pointing out units as unit themselves.

And Panther still beats the crap out of pershing. Panther is also not limited to 1.
And yes, pershing is squishy compared to -insert 230 fuel vehicle here-.
15 Nov 2019, 08:28 AM
#73
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

did it? Thanks for the correction. Isn't that about the same bonus all tanks get then at that point only later?


It was changed from -50% to -30% because of the durability and main gun adjustments.
-30% is in line with what all other vehicle get (-20% or -30%).
Almost every other vehicle gets the reload bonus at vet 3 too.
15 Nov 2019, 08:30 AM
#74
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 670

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:19 AMKatitof

What does that even mean?
Pershing is premium med with great AI. That's certainly not the description of Tiger.


And Panther still beats the crap out of pershing. Panther is also not limited to 1.
And yes, pershing is squishy compared to -insert 230 fuel vehicle here-.


So if we give Pershing another 80hp stock, 5 range on vet, but cut its speed, turret, static and moving accuracy, make it big target size,draw a bigger 3d model, and make it cost more popcap

We won't call it premium med but a heavy?

See i think this is why i felt Pershing is underestimated and perhaps tiger over rated

A lot of old visual cues misconceptions?
15 Nov 2019, 08:42 AM
#75
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13757 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 08:30 AMmrgame2


So if we give Pershing another 80hp stock, 5 range on vet, but cut its speed, turret, static and moving accuracy, make it big target size,draw a bigger 3d model, and make it cost more popcap
We won't call it premium med but a heavy?


Yes. Because its current stats are in line with premium meds like panther or comet more then heavies.

See i think this is why i felt Pershing is underestimated and perhaps tiger over rated

A lot of old visual cues misconceptions?

There is also fact that tiger got much better vet since pershings was nerfed.
15 Nov 2019, 09:02 AM
#76
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2019, 01:41 AMmrgame2


Lol sorry, i got that from wiki.



15 Nov 2019, 09:05 AM
#77
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 371

How many game have you play for the nearest week To say "Tiger went unused" ? Because i just see Tiger/ace for almost every single 4v4 game i played for the nearest 2 weeks.
Tiger and ace are definitely famous unit in the current meta alongside fall, event more than cmrd panther.
15 Nov 2019, 09:53 AM
#78
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 491

So after reading most of the posts, I suggest one last change to fix the Tiger:

What if we give it higher turret rotation (for start maybe around one bazillion degrees per microsecond or so), and then give it a toggle ability that makes it fly like a helicopter (obviously no shooting possible since the main gun is needed to create lift). Now the Tiger becomes targetable by AA only (only rear armor is used, so that AA vehicles have a chance to penetrate. It's all about balance). You can then fly it across the battlefield and land where you see fit. Maybe the call-in animation should be changed to that as well.

This would also emphasize the legendary status that the Tiger got during WWII.

However, maybe we should limit this ability to the Ace only, I would assume that only a very experienced crew could maneuver their tank like that.
15 Nov 2019, 10:26 AM
#79
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

So after reading most of the posts, I suggest one last change to fix the Tiger:

What if we give it higher turret rotation (for start maybe around one bazillion degrees per microsecond or so), and then give it a toggle ability that makes it fly like a helicopter (obviously no shooting possible since the main gun is needed to create lift). Now the Tiger becomes targetable by AA only (only rear armor is used, so that AA vehicles have a chance to penetrate. It's all about balance). You can then fly it across the battlefield and land where you see fit. Maybe the call-in animation should be changed to that as well.

This would also emphasize the legendary status that the Tiger got during WWII.

However, maybe we should limit this ability to the Ace only, I would assume that only a very experienced crew could maneuver their tank like that.


+1

This would provide good counterplay against the T34's ram ability and might improve the potential of Axis Anti-air (if well microed, the Tiger would be able to obstruct the path of planes and possibly even destroy them in a collision).

I'd also like to request one more ability added to this advanced turret rotation mode (this is the last change I swear). The Tiger crew will go in overdrive to lift the tank up even higher, then land upon a target with maximum momentum. The impact would have the blast radius and damage around that of a railway artillery shell. If you land on an enemy tank with turret, its turret rotation will be disabled for 120 seconds. This way the Tiger's own slow turret will be able to keep up once it's on the ground.

With these fixes the Tiger would finally be in line with the Pershing and IS2 and see actual use in high level play.
15 Nov 2019, 10:33 AM
#80
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 491



+1

This would provide good counterplay against the T34's ram ability and might improve the potential of Axis Anti-air (if well microed, the Tiger would be able to obstruct the path of planes and possibly even destroy them in a collision).

I'd also like to request one more ability added to this advanced turret rotation mode (this is the last change I swear). The Tiger crew will go in overdrive to lift the tank up even higher, then land upon a target with maximum momentum. The impact would have the blast radius and damage around that of a railway artillery shell. If you land on an enemy tank with turret, its turret rotation will be disabled for 120 seconds. This way the Tiger's own slow turret will be able to keep up once it's on the ground.

With these fixes the Tiger would finally be in line with the Pershing and IS2 and see actual use in high level play.

I really like that idea. But I fear that for balance reasons this ability should be either behind vet, or it should need a special mun upgrade that is exclusive with the pintle MG
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