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IS2 and Tiger bugging me at night

9 Nov 2019, 08:01 AM
#1
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

This always bug me about their gun range.

IS2 starts with 12% less range, i assume is to balance between its 25% better front-half armor. But both vetted, IS2 gun range become as good as Tiger while maintaining its 25% better armor.

Oversight?

Beside IS2 got a small helpful change. From not so useful capture point to an offensive ability. While stug users have been crying about useless twp to no avail
9 Nov 2019, 09:19 AM
#2
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13753 | Subs: 7

Tiger shoots 20% faster then IS-2 and is more accurate.

Oversight?
9 Nov 2019, 09:34 AM
#3
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

Tiger used to have 40 range at vet 0-1 like the IS2, but it got buffed to 45 range because the Tiger was a bit lackluster against the then super strong (vetted) SU85's. The IS2 never had this problem so it kept 40 range at the start.

So it's intended. The Tiger got the slightly better starting range for "free".
9 Nov 2019, 10:07 AM
#4
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

Tiger shoots 20% faster then IS-2 and is more accurate.

Oversight?


The Tiger also has a hefty veterancy requirements advantage at 3090/6180/12360 vs the IS-2's 3920/7840/15680.
9 Nov 2019, 10:14 AM
#5
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

How can it be 'free' if it had been shut down by 60TD?

I could be wrong, but fighting axis tanks give more xp to allies, how hefty are we at?
9 Nov 2019, 10:17 AM
#6
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13753 | Subs: 7

How can it be 'free' if it had been shut down by 60TD?

I could be wrong, but fighting axis tanks give more xp to allies, how hefty are we at?


"Units advantage is not an advantage over units of similar role, because its hardcounter hardcounters it"

Flawless logic right there mate!

I suppose stormtroopers free MP40 are horrible weapons which give no advantage at all against other infantries, because allied snipers have 50 range too.
9 Nov 2019, 18:39 PM
#7
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

I dont get you.
Panther is poor hard counter to IS2 because of the armor. IS2 has great similar pen as Panther. With the range vet, IS2 can handle 2 Panther before support comes it.

Meanwhile something like Jackson, you can build 3 of them and rush a Tiger Ace leaving it on the ropes.
9 Nov 2019, 19:52 PM
#8
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 53

This always bug me about their gun range.

IS2 starts with 12% less range, i assume is to balance between its 25% better front-half armor. But both vetted, IS2 gun range become as good as Tiger while maintaining its 25% better armor.

Oversight?

Beside IS2 got a small helpful change. From not so useful capture point to an offensive ability. While stug users have been crying about useless twp to no avail


3 Jacksons..., its not like an is2 can get away vs 3 stugs or jp4 or 2 panthers

its all about the support the tiger ace has
9 Nov 2019, 23:02 PM
#9
avatar of Toxicfirebal

Posts: 30

mrgane2 is basically a Axis version of CODguy. *sigh*
9 Nov 2019, 23:08 PM
#10
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871

I dont get you.
Panther is poor hard counter to IS2 because of the armor. IS2 has great similar pen as Panther. With the range vet, IS2 can handle 2 Panther before support comes it.

Meanwhile something like Jackson, you can build 3 of them and rush a Tiger Ace leaving it on the ropes.


I'd love to see you prove that.
10 Nov 2019, 02:15 AM
#11
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6306 | Subs: 1

Tiger used to have 40 range at vet 0-1 like the IS2, but it got buffed to 45 range because the Tiger was a bit lackluster against the then super strong (vetted) SU85's. The IS2 never had this problem so it kept 40 range at the start.

So it's intended. The Tiger got the slightly better starting range for "free".


Basically this.

TWP is 100% pen shot and basically disabling the enemy tank for 1 reload. Far from useless.
10 Nov 2019, 09:35 AM
#12
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

I think twp only disable turret rotation, it does not disable main gun. It last for like what 1-2 seconds now? It is worthless ability for a vet bonus when stug already lag penetrations
10 Nov 2019, 09:36 AM
#13
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667



I'd love to see you prove that.


Like i say until support comes in

Unlike Jackson, panther need to stop shoot and aim for is2 rear side armor because its frontal vs ace frontal is crazy high. Is2 is also slightly faster than tigers

We get 3x160 vs 2x160 damages if pen. The current heavies vs counters clearly favour allies side
10 Nov 2019, 11:54 AM
#14
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

Stug HEAT round:

+100% penetration.
-50% damage.
Penetrating shell will disable vehicle's gun, turret and vision for 5 seconds.

Not useless, but situational, because of the reduced damage and clunky application.

It can be quite good if you alternate firing HEAT rounds with two or more Stugs against a heavy tank, to stop it from returning fire. Against mediums it's almost always better to keep firing normally, unless you have to save a tank or squad on the brink of death. If you know an enemy tank has excess HP between 40-80, like the KV1, IS2, Sherman with dozer upgrade, etc, you can use it once without reduced damage being a drawback.

I feel they should atleast make the Stug G HEAT round like the Stug E HEAT round (guaranteed penetration and "click -> choose target" instead of an activation type ability). It's currently a bit overnerfed.
10 Nov 2019, 12:05 PM
#15
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

I think we should remove the 50% damage penalty, like why is it there?

Imo against heavies, you need a panther follow up, cos a second stug may fail to pen. Still 5 s disable main gun does nothing much. Imo. But iirc sanders said it only disable rotation, gun can still fire?

Against med, its even less useful, they will just zip back away
10 Nov 2019, 17:11 PM
#16
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3210 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 09:36 AMmrgame2


Like i say until support comes in

Unlike Jackson, panther need to stop shoot and aim for is2 rear side armor because its frontal vs ace frontal is crazy high. Is2 is also slightly faster than tigers

We get 3x160 vs 2x160 damages if pen. The current heavies vs counters clearly favour allies side

Not that I disagree, but the reason allies have better tools to fight heavies is that they are GUARANTEED to face them. Ost has 2 stock units with more than 200armour (3if we count vetted p4) and Okw has 4. Soviet have 0 usf have 0 ukf have 2 but have to chose between them. Allies are better equipped, when they use hard counters whereas generally the axis lineup is simply a higher caliber (more armour and more pen) regardless of being a hard counter. Allies have higher highs and lower lows but the average of axis stats is higher.

This means unless the proper hard counters are fielded the allies are disadvantaged but said hard counters disadvantage the axis.
10 Nov 2019, 17:58 PM
#17
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 489

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 12:05 PMmrgame2
I think we should remove the 50% damage penalty, like why is it there?

Imo against heavies, you need a panther follow up, cos a second stug may fail to pen. Still 5 s disable main gun does nothing much. Imo. But iirc sanders said it only disable rotation, gun can still fire?

Against med, its even less useful, they will just zip back away

Because then it would likely be OP, since it could take on any medium tank without even the need to use its range. StuGIII at the moment looks quite alright to me.

To the topic:
Both IS2 and Tiger have their merits. I would not say that the +5 range that the Tiger gets are completely 'free', since it apparently needs that extra range early on to not be shut down so easily, since both units play against a different lineup. But this, combined with the (have not checked myself) supposedly higher ROF makes it also way better against other tanks and maybe even infantry (can't look up the AoE profiles at the moment).
This higher DPS is retained until vet3. I also would not say that TwP is useless against heavies. Being able to completely shut down the most important unit of your opponent for 1 salvo can come in very handy.
10 Nov 2019, 18:06 PM
#18
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 667

Idk it disable main gun, and not disable engine, Med tanks can simply reverse the f out. It is not like Stug cant pen med tanks already.

The full 160 damage from twp should help against heavies, something Wehr sorely lack. Like even Panther can bounce allies heavies frontally from max range..
10 Nov 2019, 18:35 PM
#19
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 531 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Nov 2019, 18:06 PMmrgame2
The full 160 damage from twp should help against heavies, something Wehr sorely lack. Like even Panther can bounce allies heavies frontally from max range..


The fact that you need to justify changes with 'buh even muh panther can actually bounce sometimes' tells everyone all they need to know about what sort of game you want to be playing, and how loud it would play Horst-Wessel-Lied at all times.
10 Nov 2019, 19:06 PM
#20
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3210 | Subs: 1



The fact that you need to justify changes with 'buh even muh panther can actually bounce sometimes' tells everyone all they need to know about what sort of game you want to be playing, and how loud it would play Horst-Wessel-Lied at all times.


from max range no less....
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