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russian armor

reworking TD and giving them a role

7 Nov 2019, 14:51 PM
#21
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 677



Have you considered becoming becoming a professional comedian? Its been months since something cracked me up this much.


No i mean right now is 30% / 10% armor bonus.

We should change to 15% armor 15% hp and 5% armor 5% hp

relink tightrope cast. How can Panther be IS2 counter if it gets left behind on vet?
https://youtu.be/GlpieWJnxHk?t=2264
7 Nov 2019, 14:54 PM
#22
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 838

It is time to review Wehr stock units vet bonus, armor needs to change to 50% armor 50% hp perhaps.


Full armour is better and more thematic. We don’t need to go back to 90s RTS games with just health bars.
7 Nov 2019, 14:56 PM
#23
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 677

No cool down. I mean reallocate the current armor bonus 50% of it to hp.

See above.

So P4 gets 30% armor at vet.
Then perhaphs we should give it 15% armor and an amount of HP that can tank one more half-shot of 80hp.
7 Nov 2019, 14:58 PM
#24
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 662

Panther lacks rof. This should be boosted with vet.
7 Nov 2019, 14:58 PM
#25
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13758 | Subs: 7

Panther lacks rof. This should be boosted with vet.


Panther PzKpfw V Medium Tank

Unlocks the 'Blitzkrieg' ability

+10% armour +20% health, +40% weapon rotation speed

-30% reload, +20% rotation speed, +10% ac/de-celeration

And over a year ago:
Reload time decreased from 5.8/6.7 to 5.2/5.6
7 Nov 2019, 15:14 PM
#26
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 838

No cool down. I mean reallocate the current armor bonus 50% of it to hp.

See above.

So P4 gets 30% armor at vet.
Then perhaphs we should give it 15% armor and an amount of HP that can tank one more half-shot of 80hp.


Yeah I changed the post, but the point stands that armour shouldn’t be replaced by more HP. It’s a horrible way of devolving the game.
7 Nov 2019, 15:21 PM
#27
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963




akt other than derailing and trolling what's ur opinion ?
7 Nov 2019, 15:30 PM
#28
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 677

the thing is armor has already devolved, at least for axis. We have 60TD, we have nerfed rear armor.

Tbh, i like the armor concept. In coh1, we have infantry armor.

I think armor should not just count as pen, but also as damage reduction.
7 Nov 2019, 15:50 PM
#29
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 662




And over a year ago:


It must have been like a firefly before then. For its price either it should have more penetration (which I feel is a must against churchills and other heavies) or a better rate of fire (but this would affect mediums too much imo)
7 Nov 2019, 16:46 PM
#30
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 262



It must have been like a firefly before then. For its price either it should have more penetration (which I feel is a must against churchills and other heavies) or a better rate of fire (but this would affect mediums too much imo)


The panther's poor dps per supply is offset by its positive attributes like durability and ability to damage infantry(with its mgs).
It has great penetration and is reliable at damaging mid cost heavies like the kv8 and churchill.

It does not trade very well 1v1 with the IS2 as the IS2 is substantially more expensive in mp fuel and supply, but it can at least hold its ground for a time.

Panther penetration and dps are fine.
7 Nov 2019, 16:55 PM
#31
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 815



The panther's poor dps per supply is offset by its positive attributes like durability and ability to damage infantry(with its mgs).
It has great penetration and is reliable at damaging mid cost heavies like the kv8 and churchill.

It does not trade very well 1v1 with the IS2 as the IS2 is substantially more expensive in mp fuel and supply, but it can at least hold its ground for a time.

Panther penetration and dps are fine.


The panther actually matches up poorly with the IS2 even if you factor in the difference in Mp/Fuel. An IS2 for only ~5 more popcap is anti everything squad wiping, but still beats the panther. Neither can really kill each other due to the high hp, but the Is2 will continue to have a large impact vs infantry regardless of the panther, unless it in fact blasting the panther.

The panther on the other hand is basically an MG platform vs infantry. It could probably have slightly stronger mg's now that the cost is all the way up at 185 Fuel (I remember when it was like 145, though it does have OKW mgs now?). It seems relatively good when compared to mediums or other TD's but the panther is in a peculiar spot vs heavies b/c its your "best" counter but its not actually a great counter.

Does anybody else have thoughts on the panther vs heavy Matchup?
7 Nov 2019, 17:01 PM
#32
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 262



The panther actually matches up poorly with the IS2 even if you factor in the difference in Mp/Fuel. An IS2 for only ~5 more popcap is anti everything squad wiping, but still beats the panther. Neither can really kill each other due to the high hp, but the Is2 will continue to have a large impact vs infantry regardless of the panther, unless it in fact blasting the panther.

The panther on the other hand is basically an MG platform vs infantry. It could probably have slightly stronger mg's now that the cost is all the way up at 185 Fuel (I remember when it was like 145, though it does have OKW mgs now?). It seems relatively good when compared to mediums or other TD's but the panther is in a peculiar spot vs heavies b/c its your "best" counter but its not actually a great counter.


I don't disagree at all and I don't think my previous post did either.
7 Nov 2019, 17:08 PM
#33
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 677



The panther actually matches up poorly with the IS2 even if you factor in the difference in Mp/Fuel. An IS2 for only ~5 more popcap is anti everything squad wiping, but still beats the panther. Neither can really kill each other due to the high hp, but the Is2 will continue to have a large impact vs infantry regardless of the panther, unless it in fact blasting the panther.

The panther on the other hand is basically an MG platform vs infantry. It could probably have slightly stronger mg's now that the cost is all the way up at 185 Fuel (I remember when it was like 145, though it does have OKW mgs now?). It seems relatively good when compared to mediums or other TD's but the panther is in a peculiar spot vs heavies b/c its your "best" counter but its not actually a great counter.

Does anybody else have thoughts on the panther vs heavy Matchup?


It just need better more relevant vet bonus.
Its base stats are good, but is also expensive and late.
But as a game continues, it fall behind because its vet is not good enough.

I also say it is a non-suppressing MG platform...aka almost useless vs infantry. Even a Tiger Ace without pintle and shorter range, is better vs infantry. Too much hype given to its pintle. It is not even as good as duskha or 50cal upgrades. Just overplayed on this prowess, like overplayed about the maxim deathloop.
7 Nov 2019, 17:18 PM
#34
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 345



It just need better more relevant vet bonus.
Its base stats are good, but is also expensive and late.
But as a game continues, it fall behind because its vet is not good enough.

I also say it is a non-suppressing MG platform...aka almost useless vs infantry. Even a Tiger Ace without pintle and shorter range, is better vs infantry. Too much hype given to its pintle. It is not even as good as duskha or 50cal upgrades. Just overplayed on this prowess, like overplayed about the maxim deathloop.


Same as the overhyped poor 4 men squads of ost. And poor axis penetration. The poor ost t4. Your are being a hypocrite now.
7 Nov 2019, 17:29 PM
#35
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1


...
Does anybody else have thoughts on the panther vs heavy Matchup?

I mostly agree although I would rather have it cheaper than with better mgs.

To make thing even worse Super heavies are now available earlier making T4 an even worse invesement for Ostheer you are much better of investing in Tiger vs Pershing, Croc and even IS-2 since they would at least get the much needed AI and reply on help from stug/pak vs the Super heavy.

In my opinion super heavies need to be delayed more, not all games have to involve pestering/tiger/IS/croc. Actually allot of powerful unit need to come later. Than one can tone down all units and give the a bigger window of opportunity.

Imo decreasing their window of opportunity of unit while buffing them thru the roof to compensate is the wrong direction.
7 Nov 2019, 17:46 PM
#36
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 815

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Nov 2019, 17:29 PMVipper

I mostly agree although I would rather have it cheaper than with better mgs.

To make thing even worse Super heavies are now available earlier making T4 an even worse invesement for Ostheer you are much better of investing in Tiger vs Pershing, Croc and even IS-2 since they would at least get the much needed AI and reply on help from stug/pak vs the Super heavy.

In my opinion super heavies need to be delayed more, not all games have to involve pestering/tiger/IS/croc. Actually allot of powerful unit need to come later. Than one can tone down all units and give the a bigger window of opportunity.

Imo decreasing their window of opportunity of unit while buffing them thru the roof to compensate is the wrong direction.


I think its tough to justify pushing heavies back in timing. They come at like 20 -25 minutes most games, and the average game length is mabye like 30 minutes. I think it would be more fair to Increase tech costs in some way. The King tiger and Tiger ace (as a second vehicle after t3) seem to come around the right time at 25+ minutes just because they cost a bit more to tech to so players can't rush them wihtout incurring great cost.

Compare this to say the pershing. Instead of paying for a sherman then a second one (which would come later anyways b/c of build time), many players will just waiting 3-4 minutes for a pershing b/c it's not a big cost difference



I don't disagree at all and I don't think my previous post did either.


I wasn't tryna call you out as much as i was trying to follow up the thought :romeoHairDay:



It just need better more relevant vet bonus.
Its base stats are good, but is also expensive and late.
But as a game continues, it fall behind because its vet is not good enough.

I also say it is a non-suppressing MG platform...aka almost useless vs infantry. Even a Tiger Ace without pintle and shorter range, is better vs infantry. Too much hype given to its pintle. It is not even as good as duskha or 50cal upgrades. Just overplayed on this prowess, like overplayed about the maxim deathloop.


After they made panthers stronger at vet 0 + increased the cost while nerfing vet 2 Panthers definitely don't have comparable vet to other late game vehicles. Especially since most TDs have a lot higher Pen than they did 2 or 3 years ago, the vet 2 now ~10% armor bonus and turret rotation doesn't have much of an impact.

Edit: if you increase Pen at vet2 it could scale better against heavies while not being any stronger against mediums and tds.
7 Nov 2019, 18:03 PM
#37
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 262


Edit: if you increase Pen at vet2 it could scale better against heavies while not being any stronger against mediums and tds.


I feel this is actually a really good idea... Like... really good...
A way to aid the panther in a particular niche role without disrupting its dynamic with the non heavies.
7 Nov 2019, 18:32 PM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1



I think its tough to justify pushing heavies back in timing. They come at like 20 -25 minutes most games, and the average game length is mabye like 30 minutes. I think it would be more fair to Increase tech costs in some way. The King tiger and Tiger ace (as a second vehicle after t3) seem to come around the right time at 25+ minutes just because they cost a bit more to tech to so players can't rush them wihtout incurring great cost.
...

KT and ACE are some of the latest Super heavies tanks (case mate super heavies arrive later).

Pershing/Tiger/IS-2/Croc come allot earlier.

In addition I play mostly 2vs2 and my feedback is mostly about 2vs2 and many game go beyond 30 minutes.
7 Nov 2019, 18:42 PM
#39
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 187



The panther actually matches up poorly with the IS2 even if you factor in the difference in Mp/Fuel. An IS2 for only ~5 more popcap is anti everything squad wiping, but still beats the panther. Neither can really kill each other due to the high hp, but the Is2 will continue to have a large impact vs infantry regardless of the panther, unless it in fact blasting the panther.

The panther on the other hand is basically an MG platform vs infantry. It could probably have slightly stronger mg's now that the cost is all the way up at 185 Fuel (I remember when it was like 145, though it does have OKW mgs now?). It seems relatively good when compared to mediums or other TD's but the panther is in a peculiar spot vs heavies b/c its your "best" counter but its not actually a great counter.

Does anybody else have thoughts on the panther vs heavy Matchup?


Fully agreed on all counts.
7 Nov 2019, 18:46 PM
#40
avatar of Khan

Posts: 562



The panther actually matches up poorly with the IS2 even if you factor in the difference in Mp/Fuel. An IS2 for only ~5 more popcap is anti everything squad wiping, but still beats the panther. Neither can really kill each other due to the high hp, but the Is2 will continue to have a large impact vs infantry regardless of the panther, unless it in fact blasting the panther.

The panther on the other hand is basically an MG platform vs infantry. It could probably have slightly stronger mg's now that the cost is all the way up at 185 Fuel (I remember when it was like 145, though it does have OKW mgs now?). It seems relatively good when compared to mediums or other TD's but the panther is in a peculiar spot vs heavies b/c its your "best" counter but its not actually a great counter.

Does anybody else have thoughts on the panther vs heavy Matchup?


Couldn't have said it better myself.
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