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About Grenade Inconsistencies

6 Nov 2019, 13:40 PM
#1
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 345

From my perspective those grenades are just weird. Sometimes they just nuke whole squads sometimes they just barely give them a scratch.

I wonder do they have some sort of special case for higher damage or are they just RNG nades.

> Guards Rifle Infantry grenade
> Fuersturm (MP40) Volks Model-24
> Grenadier rifle grenade
> Panzerfusilier Model-24
6 Nov 2019, 13:53 PM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 13:40 PMJilet
From my perspective those grenades are just weird. Sometimes they just nuke whole squads sometimes they just barely give them a scratch.

I wonder do they have some sort of special case for higher damage or are they just RNG nades.

> Guards Rifle Infantry grenade
> Fuersturm (MP40) Volks Model-24
> Grenadier rifle grenade
> Panzerfusilier Model-24


Guard's
AOE Radius 4
Distance near 1
Distance mid 2
Distance far 3
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 1

P.F.
AOE Radius 3
Distance near 0.75
Distance mid 1.5
Distance far 2.25
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 0.75

Grenadier R.G.
AOE Radius 3
Distance near 0.75
Distance mid 1.5
Distance far 2.25
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20

V.G.
AOE Radius 4
Distance near 1
Distance mid 2
Distance far 3
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 1
80 DMG distance 0.75

6 Nov 2019, 14:00 PM
#3
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 149

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 13:40 PMJilet
From my perspective those grenades are just weird. Sometimes they just nuke whole squads sometimes they just barely give them a scratch.

I wonder do they have some sort of special case for higher damage or are they just RNG nades.

> Guards Rifle Infantry grenade
> Fuersturm (MP40) Volks Model-24
> Grenadier rifle grenade
> Panzerfusilier Model-24

Sander once said that grenades are not RNG as they have set damage profile. Your idea of inconsistency may come from a fact that grenade timer is not exactly where the grenade lands. You can only judge where the explosion is going to happen by the physical position of the grenade.

There are also other factors to consider like the squad being spread out, having damage reduction, or being behind green cover and taking only 50% dmg.

Green cover vs grenade mechanic is based on relative position of the squad throwing the grenade to the squad receiving it. It doesn't matter on which side of the cover grenade lands. You can test it with cheatcommands to see what results to expect.
6 Nov 2019, 16:27 PM
#4
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1436 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 13:53 PMVipper


P.F.
AOE Radius 3
Distance near 0.75
Distance mid 1.5
Distance far 2.25
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 0.75

V.G.
AOE Radius 4
Distance near 1
Distance mid 2
Distance far 3
Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 1
80 DMG distance 0.75



Thank you for posting this. I've always felt like PF grenades were weaker than the Feurstorm Volks. IMO This is one inconsistency that should be fixed.
6 Nov 2019, 16:51 PM
#5
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1



Thank you for posting this. I've always felt like PF grenades were weaker than the Feurstorm Volks. IMO This is one inconsistency that should be fixed.

Glad that I could be of help.
6 Nov 2019, 17:55 PM
#6
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6317 | Subs: 1

Disparity in results depends on squad formation, presence of heavy cover or not and nade landing.

People might found this grenades achieve different results because they are used to NUKE nades which deal 100dmg instead of 80dmg.

If your objective is to kill models, it might not be the most efficient to aim for dead center, if the models are spread out.
6 Nov 2019, 21:25 PM
#7
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 345

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 13:53 PMVipper

snip


So the distance close bigger grenade is better ?
6 Nov 2019, 21:39 PM
#8
avatar of Blebfeesh

Posts: 62



Thank you for posting this. I've always felt like PF grenades were weaker than the Feurstorm Volks. IMO This is one inconsistency that should be fixed.

The only reason why I'd be reluctant to support this, is that pf nades have a bug where there is no audio que given.
6 Nov 2019, 21:45 PM
#9
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3240 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 21:25 PMJilet


So the distance close bigger grenade is better ?

Its a combination of the distance and the damage profile. The damage profile says its close distance does 80 damage and that damage goes out to 1 radius. If it did say 60 damage the smaller 0.75 radius would be better as its capable of an insta kill. Both values are required and dependant on each other
6 Nov 2019, 21:47 PM
#10
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 6317 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 21:25 PMJilet


So the distance close bigger grenade is better ?


Distance near means at which distance the damage near modifier applies. Vipper just gave you how much damage at that dist you will be doing.

So:
80dmg x 1.0 modifier = 80dmg till 0.75 in case of small blast nades (which should ONLY be Rifle nade)


Most type of nades are grouped in similar categories.

Stun nades / Assault volley grenades / Rifle grenade (PF nade which shouldn't be here) / normal nade / Shock nade / nuke nade


6 Nov 2019, 22:08 PM
#11
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816

Ya now I guess we know why the Fussilier nade sucks. It probably should be normalized or made a little cheaper if it's going to only do rifle nade damage as a close range nade w/ a fuse.

It did seem rather odd since the model 24 on VG is quite good and used to be amazing. Never realized they are not the same as fussiliers before this
6 Nov 2019, 22:28 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13780 | Subs: 7

Ya now I guess we know why the Fussilier nade sucks. It probably should be normalized or made a little cheaper if it's going to only do rifle nade damage as a close range nade w/ a fuse.

It did seem rather odd since the model 24 on VG is quite good and used to be amazing. Never realized they are not the same as fussiliers before this

Watch what you wish for, remember bundle nade costs as much as guards nade and is incomparably better.
6 Nov 2019, 22:42 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1


Watch what you wish for, remember bundle nade costs as much as guards nade and is incomparably better.

That is incorrect , RGD-33 cost 30 munition Bundle is 35.
6 Nov 2019, 22:46 PM
#14
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 499

I also have a question:
I one read that cover directionality also effects AoE, but in the case of grenades the reference is not the grenade, but the infantry squad.

So if your for example frontally assault an enemy squad in green cover and throw a grenade behind them, their cover buff of -10% damage still applies, although the cover logically should not have effected the damage output. Damage wise, this would make it irrelevant if you throw a grenade in front of the cover or behind it.

Is this (still) true?
6 Nov 2019, 23:06 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1


The position of the explosion does not matter the position of the unit throwing the grenades does. If the cover is between the unit throwing the grenade and the target cover bonus apply else it does not.
6 Nov 2019, 23:07 PM
#16
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

1 yes it checks from which direction it was thrown, 2 gren cover gives 50% RD not 10
7 Nov 2019, 11:16 AM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1

My suggestion would be to differentiate offensive and defensive grenades.
They could have different modifiers vs cover/Garrison.

For instance stun grenade could do extra damage vs garrison and/or heavy cover.
7 Nov 2019, 11:30 AM
#18
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1969 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Nov 2019, 13:53 PMVipper
P.F.
AOE Radius 3
Distance near 0.75
Distance mid 1.5
Distance far 2.25

Damage near 80
Damage mid 60
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 0.75


These are the old values. The grenade was buffed should have been buffed to bring it in line with other grenades with the big changes to Panzerfusiliers in the New Commanders Patch.

Panzerfusiliers
[…]
  • Grenade AOE distance from 0.75/1.5/2.25 to 1/2/3

https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/comment/286705#Comment_286705


Edit: looked it up in the AE, and unless I'm mistaken, it seems like accidentally it wasn't changed. I'll add that to the bugs list to be fixed next patch.
7 Nov 2019, 11:53 AM
#19
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6406 | Subs: 1


... I'll add that to the bugs list to be fixed next patch.

With the target size for B4 and the speed of retreat hmg I hope.
7 Nov 2019, 11:55 AM
#20
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3971

Cal 50 if I'm not wrong still has more RA during retreat
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