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Jackson Nerf vs Making Panther Doctrinal

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5 Nov 2019, 06:15 AM
#101
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 294 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2019, 03:13 AMCODGUY


I'm not going to get into this too much but OKW is the one faction you can sit on your ass with and play as sloppy as you want for the first 15 minutes of the game and still pull off a win. It's got more get out of jail free cards than the Rothschild family.



You mean the laser tanks and the mutant zombie soldiers? Those aren't actually allowed in multiplayer unfortunately :(


In multiplayer games there aren't any get out of jail free cards - unless you're referring to choosing a late-game doctrine or hoping your opponent plays poorly. Falling behind in the early-mid game leads to a vicious snowball. If the OKW player is "playing as sloppily as he wants" he wouldn't have any map control and wouldn't be able to preserve veterancy on his squads. Try this in cheatmode: Three squads of Vet 0 Volks in close range vs Vet 3 double barred rifleman squad. That's what will happen when an OKW player "plays as sloppily as he wants".

You see, multiplayer games play very differently from the ones in your imagination. Veterancy bonuses significantly increase the power of a squad or unit without any increase in cost. You also need to capture territory to increase your fuel and munitions income.

In COH2 multiplayer most of us like to
Get Vehicles -> Bleed/Wipe the enemy -> Get more Map Control -> acquire more powerful army

It's common for players to win games with just the T70, or even worse, just the m20. Feel free to come back with your balance opinions when you've actually tried COH2 multiplayer.
5 Nov 2019, 08:47 AM
#102
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 66



Let's also pretend that OKW doesn't have the worst AT gun...


The Rak is actually excellent in soviet hands against the axis, I love stealing it.
5 Nov 2019, 09:18 AM
#103
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 932

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2019, 04:57 AMCODGUY


I thought I was 1300 rank?


Isn’t your okw lower than your usa? Can’t remember.

Point is you’re preaching about a faction you have 0 clue how it works, meanwhile a bunch of people here are top 200 with okw.
5 Nov 2019, 09:43 AM
#104
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

Possible nerfs to Jackson:

- turret slower
- move mulitply to .5
- take away repair crews


this points combined are the thinks which makes the jackson so strong: fast, very flanking-friendly, cant be flanked, repair itself after a fight...make its highly available, and has high accu with the high speed and crush (puma struggle when there are things to crush, has low turret speed and no self repair(nondoc)
5 Nov 2019, 09:50 AM
#105
avatar of SturmTigerVorgo

Posts: 307

i'm willing to bet quite a large sum of dollaz that this mofo don't even play the game lol
5 Nov 2019, 10:09 AM
#106
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 663

I would concentrate on panther more rather than on nerfing Jackson. Make panther more of a threat to infantry at range and everything should be fine. Or just make it cheaper. Switchable panther ammo could do the trick. So that it can engage infantry not by running over them.
5 Nov 2019, 10:18 AM
#107
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1540

I would concentrate on panther more rather than on nerfing Jackson. Make panther more of a threat to infantry at range and everything should be fine. Or just make it cheaper. Switchable panther ammo could do the trick. So that it can engage infantry not by running over them.


Panther with switchable ammo is a completely crazy idea. Panther as it is right now is perfectly fine and should not be touched anymore considering how difficult it was to balance the unit.

5 Nov 2019, 11:58 AM
#108
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 149

Bashing someone's opinion by refering to his/her rank, as presented in this thread, is rude.

One can protect his SU-85 or Firefly with mines on the flanks, you can't do that as USF because you don't have mines available unless you pick a right doctrine. Also both SOV and Brits have ATGs with decent penetration that can support you and provide extra DPS. USF ATG will ask you for MU tax and even after you pay that you may or may not pen axis armour. This means that if you make Jackson vulnerable to flanking or just nerf it in other way, USF is dead in lategame. As USF you don't have any reliable lategame AT platform other than Jackson unless you pick a doctrine with Rangers and spend 150 MU on 3 bazookas, this should be good enough for P4, but not for the MetaTiger that you see every game now.

I say Panther and Jackson are okay as they are now. Both are hard to kill, both are very mobile and costly to replace if one is lost.

Also listing T34/85 as the best medium is a joke lol. It fights infantry exactly the same as T34/76 while being 40FU more expensive, taking longer to vet and it still doesn't pen P4 reliably.
5 Nov 2019, 12:09 PM
#109
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6445 | Subs: 1

...

One can protect his SU-85 or Firefly with mines on the flanks, you can't do that as USF because you don't have mines available unless you pick a right doctrine.
...

USF have stock access to RE mines, stock a access to m20 AT mines and 3 different units with doctrinal units.

Not having access to AT mines is simply a myth.
5 Nov 2019, 12:30 PM
#110
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 149

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2019, 12:09 PMVipper

USF have stock access to RE mines, stock a access to m20 AT mines and 3 different units with doctrinal units.

Not having access to AT mines is simply a myth.

RE mines 9/10 times are waste of micro. I wonder if you'd feel it's fair to replace shu mines or tellers with RE light AT mines. Sideteching for M20 AT mines can be as expensive as 570MP and 75FU if you went Cpt route, I think I'll pass. If you think that you should pick a doctrine to have access to basic tools available to everyone else then I suggest we put tellers, pwerfer, brummbar and panther in doctrines. After all you can plant shu mines with your 251 halftrack.

You are very picky
5 Nov 2019, 12:35 PM
#111
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

Then add a light tabk to other , they have teller mines cause of it
5 Nov 2019, 12:35 PM
#112
avatar of achpawel

Posts: 663



Panther with switchable ammo is a completely crazy idea. Panther as it is right now is perfectly fine and should not be touched anymore considering how difficult it was to balance the unit.



Generally either panther anty inf longer range or nerfing allied TD a bit especially Jackson by making it less potent or more expensive.
5 Nov 2019, 12:40 PM
#113
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13803 | Subs: 7

Then add a light tabk to other , they have teller mines cause of it

You'll reach escape velocity one day if you keep jumping that high to conclusions.

Why soviets do not have teller equivalent too?
They didn't had stock infantry AT for years.
5 Nov 2019, 12:42 PM
#114
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002


You'll reach escape velocity one day if you keep jumping that high to conclusions.

Why soviets do not have teller equivalent too?
They didn't had stock infantry AT for years.
cause they have stock generalist and at light tank ?
5 Nov 2019, 12:58 PM
#116
avatar of BlueKnight

Posts: 149

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Nov 2019, 12:43 PMVipper

No "You are very picky" your claim that " you don't have mines available unless you pick a right doctrine" is simply false and no matter how much "cherry picking" you do that your claim will not become true.

Following your logic you can just fight Jacksons using Pak40 or Pgrens with schrecks, because Jackson is very inefficient against them.
5 Nov 2019, 13:00 PM
#117
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820


RE mines 9/10 times are waste of micro. I wonder if you'd feel it's fair to replace shu mines or tellers with RE light AT mines. Sideteching for M20 AT mines can be as expensive as 570MP and 75FU if you went Cpt route, I think I'll pass. If you think that you should pick a doctrine to have access to basic tools available to everyone else then I suggest we put tellers, pwerfer, brummbar and panther in doctrines. After all you can plant shu mines with your 251 halftrack.

You are very picky


m20 is meta and a very good unit...its your own problem and decision to not get one...and place mines everywhere enemy could flank.
5 Nov 2019, 13:04 PM
#118
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6445 | Subs: 1


Following your logic you can just fight Jacksons using Pak40 or Pgrens with schrecks, because Jackson is very inefficient against them.

read post 115
5 Nov 2019, 13:04 PM
#119
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13803 | Subs: 7

cause they have stock generalist and at light tank ?

I'm 100% positive its a massive help against early ost lights or stronger meds.
Totally worthy replacement of specialist mine that OHKs all lights and AT squad that deters ligts while being effective against meds.
5 Nov 2019, 13:08 PM
#120
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002


I'm 100% positive its a massive help against early ost lights or stronger meds.
Totally worthy replacement of specialist mine that OHKs all lights and AT squad that deters ligts while being effective against meds.
I hope u do know 2 normal mines already one shoot LV right
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