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russian armor

How to make airborne guards better?

30 Oct 2019, 20:08 PM
#1
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

Hi. Can we please modify that suppression Il2 strafe airborne guards have? I think it's quite gimmicky and it is of 60 munitions. It doesn't do any damage. Previously it did damage (it was quite OP but it shares a global cooldown kinda like pathfinders artillery.) but when balance team nerfed the damage they forgot to decrease the muni cost. Personally i think the ability performance doesn't do the cost justice.
I have a couple of suggestions how this unit can be improved.
1. Remove this ability and give a more potent grenade. Their present standard grenade is meh. Also they are the elitist squad in soviet roster with 380 mp. They deserve some better performance abilities.
I quite like how they can self heal when vetted up because they are an elite squad.

2. Increase the damage to the suppression strafe.
Or decrease the cost
Or increase the duration of suppression.

At this current time it's just a a waste of money. Kinda like false red smoke but that costs 60 munitions if I'm not wrong.
30 Oct 2019, 20:12 PM
#2
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1494 | Subs: 3

At the stage of discussing the creation of this unit, I said that such ability is stupid and does not meet their "role" to soldiers operating behind enemy lines.
30 Oct 2019, 20:20 PM
#3
avatar of Maret

Posts: 573

Yea unit quite meh, they have too high cost, while don't have stealth and at-nades. Ppsh while free don't have tactic advantage ability, only these stupid suppressive fire ability and smoke nades. Really, squad that must act behind enemy lines have ability that work only when you have near friendly squad that could deal with debuffed enemy. Who make such horrible design?
Only DP-28 good, while don't have any special abilities. Button ability like guards have could be good.
I think it will be better that this unit will be like falls - 4 man stealth squad with bundle nades and at-nade with smoke grenade. Or like jaegers with mp40.
30 Oct 2019, 20:22 PM
#4
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874

Airborne guards are strong, but losing a squad is absolutely crippling due to cost. I’m honestly okay with that, given that they have Obers level performance.

As for their call in strafe, I’d like to see it replaced with paradropping a squad member, for the reinforce cost plus 25 muni.
30 Oct 2019, 20:24 PM
#5
avatar of Maret

Posts: 573

WIht ppsh i don't see why i need airborne over stormtroops. Storms have nades and armor, while airborne cost more and have the same greandes with these stupid suppresive fire and very awkward plane ability. In which terms they better than storms?
30 Oct 2019, 20:27 PM
#6
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2019, 20:24 PMMaret
WIht ppsh i don't see why i need airborne over stormtroops. Storms have nades and armor, while airborne cost more and have the same greandes with these stupid suppresive fire and very awkward plane ability. In which terms they better than storms?


The doctrine would be a lot better if the ppsh package is replaced by elite bazookas. That way you can have some decent handheld AT to help in the late game where this commander is very weak.
30 Oct 2019, 20:28 PM
#7
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2019, 20:20 PMMaret
Yea unit quite meh, they have too high cost, while don't have stealth and at-nades. Ppsh while free don't have tactic advantage ability, only these stupid suppressive fire ability and smoke nades. Really, squad that must act behind enemy lines have ability that work only when you have near friendly squad that could deal with debuffed enemy. Who make such horrible design?
Only DP-28 good, while don't have any special abilities. Button ability like guards have could be good.
I think it will be better that this unit will be like falls - 4 man stealth squad with bundle nades and at-nade with smoke grenade. Or like jaegers with mp40.

I'm not sure if balance team will agree to at nade infantry behind enemy lines especially when we already have partisans right now.

Yes button can be nice. Or stealth will be cherry on top. I wonder how did they infiltrate a damn house/building if they can't camouflage themselves? They also have sniper models so they have white uniforms in winter maps.
30 Oct 2019, 20:30 PM
#8
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



The doctrine would be a lot better if the ppsh package is replaced by elite bazookas. That way you can have some decent handheld AT to help in the late game where this commander is very weak.

I think he is referring to ppsh upgrade ability for guards which is free.
30 Oct 2019, 20:30 PM
#9
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874


I think he is referring to ppsh upgrade ability for guards which is free.


That’s the one I meant.
30 Oct 2019, 20:38 PM
#10
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



That’s the one I meant.

Soviets don't have bazookas unless it's some lendlease thing going on.
30 Oct 2019, 20:40 PM
#11
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874


Soviets don't have bazookas unless it's some lendlease thing going on.


Obviously
30 Oct 2019, 20:40 PM
#12
avatar of Maret

Posts: 573

Soviets never used bazookas, while get some amount in 1941. They have much more piats than bazookas, but not used them too.
IMHO, airborne should have booby trap ability in both variants - they diversion specialists, it's they work. While with ppsh will get tactic advantage instead suppresive fire. They don't have stealth like other diversion troops and you can't make combo - stealth + tactic advantage.
30 Oct 2019, 20:42 PM
#13
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



Obviously

Are you saying a unit dropping behind enemy lines have access to lendlease weapons? I think stealth will be nice. Ppsh is already a free upgrade.
30 Oct 2019, 20:43 PM
#14
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 874


Are you saying a unit dropping behind enemy lines have access to lendlease weapons? I think stealth will be nice. Ppsh is already a free upgrade.


Soviets had a bunch of Piats. Would make sense if they were given to special forces regiments.
30 Oct 2019, 20:44 PM
#15
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2019, 20:40 PMMaret
Soviets never used bazookas, while get some amount in 1941. They have much more piats than bazookas, but not used them too.
IMHO, airborne should have booby trap ability in both variants - they diversion specialists, it's they work. While with ppsh will get tactic advantage instead suppresive fire. They don't have stealth like other diversion troops and you can't make combo - stealth + tactic advantage.


Yes no first strike bonus found here.
30 Oct 2019, 20:47 PM
#16
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170



Soviets had a bunch of Piats. Would make sense if they were given to special forces regiments.

I think they serve a better role being an anti infantry squad right now. Who will want to have a 380 mp piat squad with a high reinforce cost. I believe at the very least they need a grenade buff and maybe stealth. I would argue for bazookas and piats but we already have partisans for that. But you're right. Then player can choose which kind of chaos to create behind enemy lines. Anti infantry or anti tank one :)
31 Oct 2019, 07:10 AM
#17
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1494 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Oct 2019, 20:40 PMMaret
Soviets never used bazookas, while get some amount in 1941. They have much more piats than bazookas, but not used them too.
IMHO, airborne should have booby trap ability in both variants - they diversion specialists, it's they work. While with ppsh will get tactic advantage instead suppresive fire. They don't have stealth like other diversion troops and you can't make combo - stealth + tactic advantage.


No, they were used. Documents were found: a summary of the 272th OMSBON, they mention "reactive rifle" and award sheets for platoon of "reactive rifle" that used Bazook.
This unit used the Ford GPA, which included the Bazookas. In April 1944, 11 such OMSBONs were created. So this is true as in the photograph: cars of amibia and Bazooka.

Plus, during the excavation of the Zeelow Heights, a Bazooka was found, which belonged to the Soviet troops.

So we can conclude: Bazooka was used in the USSR, not very intensively, for objective reasons - one of them is the extreme unreliability of batteries. But still used.
31 Oct 2019, 17:10 PM
#18
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 134

I'm actually okay with the unit as it is right with the exception of the strafing run.

Maybe bring down the cost to 40 munitions much like a Pyrosection arty flare. Airborne doctrine is already really munition based so any cost reduction would be a pretty good buff.
31 Oct 2019, 21:38 PM
#19
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

I'm actually okay with the unit as it is right with the exception of the strafing run.

Maybe bring down the cost to 40 munitions much like a Pyrosection arty flare. Airborne doctrine is already really munition based so any cost reduction would be a pretty good buff.


Yes i agree. Or maybe improve the damage. I mean it's a damn plane shooting and models take near to no damage.
4 Nov 2019, 05:09 AM
#20
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

What should be the proposed price for the unit?
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