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russian armor

120mm mortars underperform!

Vaz
28 Oct 2019, 03:45 AM
#61
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 906

This mortar used to be good. However, as with most things allies have that are effective, it was nerfed into being undesireable. Considering how Wehr especially likes to set up camp and sit around until they have panthers and Tigers roaming around everywhere, the 120 significantly endangered that.
28 Oct 2019, 04:32 AM
#62
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1680

Poor allied, they always get nerfed because they cant have nice things
28 Oct 2019, 04:33 AM
#63
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 698



And you couldn't outflank one dushka that had basically no infantry support? even though the dushka has one of the narrowest cones of fire in the game? No wonder you lose Panthers to AECs, likewise, a single SU-85 with no infantry to snare for it means free real estate, just flank the bloody thing, it's turretless.

"oh, but he does have infantry, and I just haven't bothered to mention them!" Well, then he's using combined arms, and you apparently are not. Zone the 120mm out, it'll lose vs any other mortar in the game, so just duel it into submission. I've already mentioned the Dushka's narrow cone of fire. (oh by the way, you're getting your ass kicked by an off-meta commander if he has both of those, good job.) And actually try using your entire infantry force to attack him, but I don't mean blob and A-move in front of his MG. Overwhelm him with micro, he's on the defensive, it's only natural he'll have the advantage.


Yes but dushka have fast fast reposition times and very offensive suppression and damages. I think he had 3 of them and backup by the reinforce ht. The 120mm i think had 2 and they are position far back because they can. 120mm simply drop them shells against my wehr units moving to clear the duskha and su85.

See the point i saying, these units are situational and their strenghts are OP if can be amassed. I seen what 2v2 can do by a team with off meta coordination, imagine 4v4.

Thinking back maybe i should gone with lefh but that was the past.
28 Oct 2019, 05:29 AM
#64
avatar of krygenxl2

Posts: 3

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28 Oct 2019, 09:36 AM
#65
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6399 | Subs: 1



This is why i find it pretty bad as a metric to reference, when we don't even know exactly how it is calculated.

IMO, it brings more confusion to the discussion than rather listing scatter, AoE and RoF in separate ways.

Well Sanders uses it...

And as I said anyone who prefers to other stat for comparison reason should feel free to do so.

He should not feel in anyway disappointed if he gets attacked and accused of bias for doing so by specific members, it seem to be a tradition for them to do so.
28 Oct 2019, 10:51 AM
#66
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 1026 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Oct 2019, 09:36 AMVipper

Well Sanders uses it...

And as I said anyone who prefers to other stat for comparison reason should feel free to do so.

He should not feel in anyway disappointed if he gets attacked and accused of bias for doing so by specific members, it seem to be a tradition for them to do so.


I remember reading an explanation about it a long time ago, but can't find it anymore. :guyokay:
28 Oct 2019, 12:22 PM
#67
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6399 | Subs: 1



I remember reading an explanation about it a long time ago, but can't find it anymore. :guyokay:

I guess one could check the script and see how it calculated...one can download the code anyway...
28 Oct 2019, 15:39 PM
#68
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1537

Stock Soviet mortar is a good general purpose mortar

The 120mm is worse against infantry, but better against team weapons, especially other mortars. At most it is sightly overpriced, but the unit is good
28 Oct 2019, 15:42 PM
#69
avatar of KiwiBirb

Posts: 384

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Oct 2019, 19:23 PMRitter
what rubbish. This unit needs to be buffed exactly the way I said!


:clap:

28 Oct 2019, 15:54 PM
#70
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 816

From my perspective this unit is basically a pack howitzer with 3-4 times as much airtime under the projectiles.

When it gets rolling it is still devastating but often there may be few stationary targets to fire at and it may not do much at all (vetting slowly) until the pace of play slows down to a crawl.

Giving a flare at vet0 and reducing popcap (b/c 10 is far too high) would allow for it to be more effective at finding its own stationary targets in 1v1s without risking a major change in performance.

The same change made the soviet 82mm mortar quite good
28 Oct 2019, 17:20 PM
#71
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 698

From my perspective this unit is basically a pack howitzer with 3-4 times as much airtime under the projectiles.

When it gets rolling it is still devastating but often there may be few stationary targets to fire at and it may not do much at all (vetting slowly) until the pace of play slows down to a crawl.

Giving a flare at vet0 and reducing popcap (b/c 10 is far too high) would allow for it to be more effective at finding its own stationary targets in 1v1s without risking a major change in performance.

The same change made the soviet 82mm mortar quite good


That will make it too strong imo. Vet0 flare on 82mm is already a cheap map hack.
Wehr cannot counter until their mortar reach vet1 for counterbarrage.
28 Oct 2019, 17:34 PM
#72
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 455

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Oct 2019, 17:20 PMmrgame2


That will make it too strong imo. Vet0 flare on 82mm is already a cheap map hack.
Wehr cannot counter until their mortar reach vet1 for counterbarrage.


Actually the grw34 should most likely win in a mortar trade due to its substantially higher ROF, especially in barrage. Haven't tested, obviously, but the numbers are pretty clear-cut IMO. Only trouble vs 120mm is barrage range discrepancy.
3 Nov 2019, 04:29 AM
#73
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 154

so when does it get fixed?
THey suckl too much, too inaccurate too overpriced and ridiculous high pop
3 Nov 2019, 06:07 AM
#75
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 137

Personally I would like it to be the same as the regular mortar just with more range. The Extra Survivability (due to surviving with 1 squad member left) and range is all it really needs. Maybe add bonus damage to emplacements.

Due to its absurdly slow Rate of Fire its like trying to win the lottery when it fires hoping it will pay for itself with its extremely slow rate of fire and high popcap. If the RNG gods are with you then the 120MM is great. More often than not it fails to be consistent.
3 Nov 2019, 11:38 AM
#76
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 531 | Subs: 1

Too high popcap and xp value requirements.

Rest is fine, since all indirect fire has been nerf down.


Page 1 still as the most accurate comment in here.

Maybe it could use the same love as the non doc and get its flares at vet 0 too? Maybe.


(Or maybe we could give it counter battery, but that's just me wishing my Soviets had access to it tbh.)
3 Nov 2019, 15:54 PM
#77
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 154

im askoing for a general balance fix. All allies units suffered
3 Nov 2019, 16:11 PM
#78
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1680

I think this discussion is starting to stale. Just because someone insist doesnt mean its right...
4 Nov 2019, 08:18 AM
#79
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 170

Personally i think if there's slow rate of fire then it should be accurate. Or high rate of fire and less accurate. This way the unit doesn't become OP.
4 Nov 2019, 19:06 PM
#80
avatar of Ritter

Posts: 154

playing allies is no fun. Where is the strength?
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