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Replace the Bulldozer Attachment with the 105

Should Urban Assault Company have the Bulldozer Attachment or the 105 call-in?
Option Distribution Votes
35%
52%
13%
Should Mechanized Company have the Bulldozer Attachment or the 105 call-in?
Option Distribution Votes
50%
23%
27%
Total votes: 45
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
23 Oct 2019, 12:04 PM
#1
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

Quick poll on the Sherman Bulldozer attachment.

I personally have never much liked the Sherman Bulldozer attachment, which has only ever served to be visually confusing and to overshadow the much more interesting Sherman 105. Urban Defence in particular would have had strong synergy with the 105 as it can field strong doctrinal AT units (Elite Bazooka Rangers) to support it.
23 Oct 2019, 12:11 PM
#2
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 838

Probably best to also replace the Sherman 76 and give the mech company doctrine a useful ability in its stead, maybe an air ability.
23 Oct 2019, 12:14 PM
#3
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6376 | Subs: 1

As I had pointed out during the preview dozer upgrade is superior to the Dzoer while overlapping. There is not reason for this upgrade in its current implementation.

To make things even worse the upgrade can be used in teammates Sherman allowing them to have access to a doctrinal upgrade. The upgrade should simply be removed.


As I had pointed out during the preview Mechanized Company has too many doctrinal abilities it does need the the dozer upgrade.
ddd
23 Oct 2019, 12:29 PM
#4
avatar of ddd

Posts: 519 | Subs: 1

As i had pointed out during the preview 105 is useless, better replace it with dozer upgradr which is decent after rework.
23 Oct 2019, 15:08 PM
#5
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

Probably best to also replace the Sherman 76 and give the mech company doctrine a useful ability in its stead, maybe an air ability.


I like the Sherman 76 though. It's a really nice middle ground between a Sherman and a Jackson.
ddd
23 Oct 2019, 15:09 PM
#6
avatar of ddd

Posts: 519 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2019, 15:08 PMLago


I like the Sherman 76 though. It's a really nice middle ground between a Sherman and a Jackson.


You like it only because you didnt play usf in months, you probably forgot what this unit does.
23 Oct 2019, 15:54 PM
#7
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

Probably best to also replace the Sherman 76 and give the mech company doctrine a useful ability in its stead, maybe an air ability.


Mechanized is already a very powerful commander, one of the best for teamgames and still often used in 1v1s too, with the WC-51 and Cav Rifles for wipes, the dozer Shermans / 76s to get premium mediums and Combined Arms. It doesn't need anything else, or it'd potentially become overpowered.
23 Oct 2019, 15:56 PM
#8
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 838



Mechanized is already a very powerful commander, one of the best for teamgames and still often used in 1v1s too, with the WC-51 and Cav Rifles for wipes, the dozer Shermans / 76s to get premium mediums and Combined Arms. It doesn't need anything else, or it'd potentially become overpowered.


I’m not saying make it better, I’m saying replace then bulldozers which are badly designed and overlap with the 105mm M4 and add in a filler ability of niche use like recon overflight.
23 Oct 2019, 15:57 PM
#9
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

bulldozers which are badly designed and overlap with the 105mm M4


I don't think they overlap at all, the 105mm is a pure anti-infantry tank that's pretty late game due to role, timing and cost, while the dozer M4A3 Sherman is a buffed up medium tank that's a great unit to get out early, because at that point (late mid / early late game) you usually need something that can force off infantry but can also potentially hold back Panzer IVs or Ostwinds, and making your generalist medium more durable is very nice.
23 Oct 2019, 16:02 PM
#10
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2019, 15:09 PMddd
You like it only because you didnt play usf in months, you probably forgot what this unit does.


It's a standard Sherman with that toggles between standard rounds and HVAP instead of standard rounds and HE.

I use it all the time when I play Soviet. It fits amazingly into their T4.

In USF it's has stronger competition from the Bulldozer 75, but it's still an excellent unit.
23 Oct 2019, 16:05 PM
#11
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

I don't think they overlap at all, the 105mm is a pure anti-infantry tank that's pretty late game due to role, timing and cost, while the dozer M4A3 Sherman is a buffed up medium tank that's a great unit to get out early, because at that point (late mid / early late game) you usually need something that can force off infantry but can also potentially hold back Panzer IVs or Ostwinds, and making your generalist medium more durable is very nice.


That's the point of the Easy Eight and the 76mm though. They're premium medium tanks that take down enemy mediums but give up their HE to do so.

The Bulldozer Attachment lets the Sherman reliably take down other mediums without giving up the devasting HE shells. The Urban Assault Variant even gets AT gun killing white phosphorus.

How are the 105mm, 76mm and Easy Eight meant to compete with that?
23 Oct 2019, 16:12 PM
#12
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 815

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2019, 16:02 PMLago


It's a standard Sherman with that toggles between standard rounds and HVAP instead of standard rounds and HE.

I use it all the time when I play Soviet. It fits amazingly into their T4.

In USF it's has stronger competition from the Bulldozer 75, but it's still an excellent unit.


The 76 is better for soviets than USF, it's like the Ostheer P4J.

The HVAP still seems a little pointless though, easier to just flank them with higher ROF regular rounds.

The 105 costs 140 fuel and does less than the m4a3 at 110 fuel. It seems pretty pointless to buy 80% of the time unless you already have a bunch of m10s or jacksons. Its a little more durable and effective vs infantry but its a niche pick not a standard one. It's only 70 fuel less than heavy tanks which do everything better and are more flexible

Even if its interesting it's not very good.
23 Oct 2019, 16:13 PM
#13
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1953 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2019, 16:05 PMLago
How are the 105mm, 76mm and Easy Eight meant to compete with that?


The 76mm can take out enemy armor way better because of HVAP shells, and insane reload time with veterancy, Radio Net and Combined Arms (reload can get as low as ~2 seconds). The EZ8 is much faster and doesn't need to switch shells. The 105mm is generally more reliable than the Sherman at forcing off infantry.

That being said, all the Sherman variants have always had only very little variation between them, that's not really something that can be fixed. I think the current situation is mostly fine, now they all have some advantages the others don't have, which gives players a lot of options so they can play with whichever ones they prefer, without having one clear winner overshadow all the others.
ddd
23 Oct 2019, 16:49 PM
#14
avatar of ddd

Posts: 519 | Subs: 1

Except there is one winner (75mm) and nobody ever bothers with other variants (76, e8, 105). So much for "advantages". P4 ausf j (the okw one) saw some use in current tournament with new ostheer doctrine. Now thats doctrinal medium tank worth taking into consideration.
23 Oct 2019, 17:58 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3215 | Subs: 1



I’m not saying make it better, I’m saying replace then bulldozers which are badly designed and overlap with the 105mm M4 and add in a filler ability of niche use like recon overflight.


It doesn't overlap of they are not available at the same time.
The isu-and kv-2 are slightly different deliveries of the same boom but are both viable. If they were both in the same commander it would be an issue.
23 Oct 2019, 19:16 PM
#16
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2717 | Subs: 2

Don't worry about it, Urban Assault will probably be fixed in the next commander revamp since Rifle Company doesn't need it anymore.
24 Oct 2019, 09:18 AM
#17
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963



The 76mm can take out enemy armor way better because of HVAP shells, and insane reload time with veterancy, Radio Net and Combined Arms (reload can get as low as ~2 seconds). The EZ8 is much faster and doesn't need to switch shells. The 105mm is generally more reliable than the Sherman at forcing off infantry.

That being said, all the Sherman variants have always had only very little variation between them, that's not really something that can be fixed. I think the current situation is mostly fine, now they all have some advantages the others don't have, which gives players a lot of options so they can play with whichever ones they prefer, without having one clear winner overshadow all the others.
Crocodile ?
25 Oct 2019, 03:07 AM
#18
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

The thing that bugs me about the 105 isn’t a balance issue, it’s the same thing that bugs me about all of the heavy support artillery style units (Brum etc); and that’s how slowly they fire their projectiles.

I know that it kind of has to be like that because they need to shoot over obstacles, but it’s so immersion breaking to have a tank fire a round that travels slower than a trebuchet flung pumpkin. The shells just kind of plop out of the end of the gun and it’s not very satisfying.
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