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Brits in 1v1 is a joke

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18 Oct 2019, 18:00 PM
#41
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4108

Out of cover is beat green and volks at long and mid range if I'm not wrong
18 Oct 2019, 18:30 PM
#42
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 399

Out of cover is beat green and volks at long and mid range if I'm not wrong


Pre patch, may be, but now, i dont think so.
18 Oct 2019, 18:39 PM
#43
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 592

I think the main problem was that UKF relied on the IS so much to fix the wholes in the faction.
IS were too strong mostly in the late game (when I played Axis the early game was usually manageable) due to the double Bren + bolster upgrade. IS got now mostly nerfed in the early game, when there's less cover around and model stat nerfs usually hit the hardest. What they actually needed was a nerf specifically to the late game.

I one suggested to make 5 men and double Brens mutually exclusive. Also on a per-squad-basis would be okay. Or slightly nerf the Bren, give the fifth man a slightly worse weapon, something like that.
18 Oct 2019, 18:54 PM
#44
avatar of DonnieChan

Posts: 1682 | Subs: 1

the quickest Therapy for OP would be playing OST for 3 weeks straight
18 Oct 2019, 20:12 PM
#45
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4108



Pre patch, may be, but now, i dont think so.
let's see, they still have better DPS than green out of cover and now same RA
18 Oct 2019, 21:37 PM
#46
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 359

This is from skturger on the Coh2 Discord. I do not claim any of his words as mine but it is still pretty much spot on.



"If I pay fuel for an upgrade to mainline infantry they shouldn't still suck

They do not suck. Use the wisdom of cover combat.


You have the grens being in comparison
Good out of cover


This is the most ridicilous part. Tommies out of cover are STILL better than grens. This is just a grass is greener on the other side issue. They still rape grens when in cover and still better at long while being slightly worse in close. Also it is actually grens and cons that are terrible when out of cover.


So they can flank the slow to setup vickers
The slightly quicker mg42 is not going to be effectively flankable by a unit that treats grey cover like red

Vickers has better rotation if I am not wrong. MG42 has better suppression but when in buildings Vickers is much better IMO due to better DPS.


Ostheer has easy access to a snare which the Brits do not

Yet OST can not put their handheld AT on their snare unit.


the AEC is great but so are tellers and Paks. And the vision on the 222 is incredible. Brits are forced into the AEC to counter a cheap 222

Vision on the Pyrotechnics IS are also incredible did you know ? You just gotta quit spamming heals on every single Tommy. (But I agree Brits must have a different healing way)


And Brits sniper is still worse since aim time(iirc)

Yet he can call arty strikes and he comes with a potent turret lock.


Everything is uphill until Churchill imo"

Bruh...
18 Oct 2019, 21:42 PM
#47
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2726 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 13:50 PMLago
UKF has a history of being a faction with massive holes in it that relies on a few batshit OP crutch units.

What I don't understand is why Relic thinks UKF can survive without these overpowered crutches and without one of the three pillars of the game's infantry combat: indirect fire.




LLAR fills the holes in the roster, but then you're playing a complete faction against a complete faction with a commander.

UKF needs a nondoctrinal indirect fire solution that's viable in 1v1. Else they're playing Rock Paper Scissors without Paper.




Lend Lease, with the popularity of heavy tank doctrines, is a bit risky but yes it plugs a lot of the early holes in the doctrine with the assault sections. Now only if Tank Hunter sections were bundled as an upgrade too.

The best adaption of the British meta I've seen by spectating ladder game and casts is: Tatical support or Vanguard operations.

Tatical support grants dirt cheap AT guns and Mortars and skillplane call ins later.

Vanguard support grands commandos and croc in the same doctrine alberit at a massive cost. It also has a skillplane callin that can actually match Axis skillplanes.




I've been fighting for the British to actually get a mobile mortar for probably years now and nothing has come out of it.

Nothing than this that is. But I'd still rather take a doctrinal mobile mortar over no mobile mortar at all.

It's "the best they can do", sadly.
18 Oct 2019, 22:07 PM
#48
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341


jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 21:37 PMJilet

Yet OST can not put their handheld AT on their snare unit.


USF can do this aswell... although its severely impractical...


but i do think that it is an abominable concept to have a snare unit with AT unless that AT sucks (like the PTRS on penals)
18 Oct 2019, 22:15 PM
#49
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 359

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 22:07 PMgbem

USF can do this aswell... although its severely impractical...


Actually that goes pretty well with Airborne with Rifles using zooks while Paras wipe the floor with Axis infantry. Yet on other doctrines yes it is quite impractical.
18 Oct 2019, 23:01 PM
#50
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4494

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Oct 2019, 13:50 PMLago
LLAR fills the holes in the roster, but then you're playing a complete faction against a complete faction with a commander.


Sounds like playing Soviets! :P
19 Oct 2019, 00:59 AM
#51
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2732

It's hilarious to me that almost every unit brits have is just a worse version of some other faction's direct counterpart except for REs, commandos, and churchills and people are still foaming at the mouth as soon as anyone suggests a rework or buff.
19 Oct 2019, 02:07 AM
#52
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 399

let's see, they still have better DPS than green out of cover and now same RA


I dont have access to latest stat, though. Can you provide ?
19 Oct 2019, 02:13 AM
#53
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 399



Sounds like playing Soviets! :P


What basic tool the sov lack To be exact ?
19 Oct 2019, 03:04 AM
#54
avatar of srider

Posts: 16

Comparison between Grenadiers and Infantry Sections is not conductive to the discussion.
Gren is cheaper, can faust, and they perform a different role within the wehr faction.

Just because they are in the same tier doesn't mean it's useful to compare the two, especially because of the way cover bonus works for Infantry Sections.

It is this kind of direct comparison without context that has led to the state things are at right now.
19 Oct 2019, 06:58 AM
#55
avatar of NorthFireZ

Posts: 144




Alright boiz I literally tested the Cromwell vs infantry (Starting 1:30) and found something interesting.

While being the worst Somehow with the Commander it's even worse vs infantry.

How is that even possibe?
19 Oct 2019, 07:24 AM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13995 | Subs: 7



What basic tool the sov lack To be exact ?

Mainline infantry that doesn't suck balls at either, late or early game, and is useful across all stages of the game.
19 Oct 2019, 08:30 AM
#57
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 610

jump backJump back to quoted post17 Oct 2019, 23:44 PMFarlion
There’s so much wrong with this post. The Cromwell bad vs infantry?

If you want infantry that suffers for no reason, have a look at Grens.

But finally, the brits have no counter to Lvs aside from the AEC? By that you mean the single best counter to Lvs in the entire game? My heart is breaking for having such pitiful options to deal with light vehicles.


I'm getting sick of this whinning over Grenadiers. They are only a 240 MP unit but they can and do go toe-to-toe with much more expensive units and with 3 or more you can murder anyone else's mainline blobs.
19 Oct 2019, 08:49 AM
#58
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 610



Lend Lease, with the popularity of heavy tank doctrines, is a bit risky but yes it plugs a lot of the early holes in the doctrine with the assault sections. Now only if Tank Hunter sections were bundled as an upgrade too.

The best adaption of the British meta I've seen by spectating ladder game and casts is: Tatical support or Vanguard operations.

Tatical support grants dirt cheap AT guns and Mortars and skillplane call ins later.

Vanguard support grands commandos and croc in the same doctrine alberit at a massive cost. It also has a skillplane callin that can actually match Axis skillplanes.




Commandos aren't even viable in Vanguard Operations because of the stupid glider requiring a huge cost to call in, then you are forced to get an ALO, then after that you have to keep the glider alive which isn't easy since you cannot repair it and it dies very quickly.
19 Oct 2019, 09:16 AM
#59
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4108




Alright boiz I literally tested the Cromwell vs infantry (Starting 1:30) and found something interesting.

While being the worst Somehow with the Commander it's even worse vs infantry.

How is that even possibe?
rng ? We already know Cromwell is not the best AI medium , it can crush easily tho so some of that is redeemed , but it's the best at medium with a whopping 50% reload speed and commander bonus sight and accuracy, can actually beat the stug as maret tested and has the best pen profile with high pen at all ranges

Btw Cromwell has nothing to do here , there is another thread for it already
19 Oct 2019, 09:19 AM
#60
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4108

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Oct 2019, 08:49 AMCODGUY


Commandos aren't even viable in Vanguard Operations because of the stupid glider requiring a huge cost to call in, then you are forced to get an ALO, then after that you have to keep the glider alive which isn't easy since you cannot repair it and it dies very quickly.
40 extra mp for a reinforce bunker , that generally cost 125 mp and 60 mp
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