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I'm looking for advice to counter a King Tiger in 1v1

by SturmKäse 4th February 2017, 02:20 AM
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Patch: 3.0.0.21647
Duration: 01:00:33
4 Feb 2017, 02:20 AM
#1
avatar of SturmKäse

Posts: 7

I just had a game as Soviet were I managed to get very ahead and was controling almost the entire map. The VP was about 400 / 70 I think when the King Tiger arrived and the match went downhill for me. I ended up losing even when I managed to be popcapped because I was unable to kill that King Tiger.

I know that is only my fault if I lost because of a single unit, so I'm looking for help instead of complaining about balance. The other player was also way more experienced and supported his King Tiger very well so I don't think it has nothing to do with the King Tiger being OP. But is still frustrating how I was so close to win and ended up losing.

I think I made a big mistake when I tried to fight it while my SU-85 was in my base, because the King Tiger ended up getting away at only 1 hit. Also going for tier 1 and a early Scout Car might have been really useful because those Kubels were very anoying abusing how all the important points are in red cover so my Conscripts were pretty hopeless against a double Kubel start.

If you can give some tips I will be very thankful.
4 Feb 2017, 07:43 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

I'll take a look at this. I'll post thoughts after.
4 Feb 2017, 09:16 AM
#3
avatar of Kalvadra

Posts: 18 | Subs: 1

Took a quick gander at it and it was mostly positive! I think early on you could've gone mortar a bit quicker considering that this map relies on small green cover patches - if you could force your opponent out of them and had an extra maxim to suppress when the indirect fire pushes them out you could've done even better early game I'd say. This is kind of my complaint about your early game; you got the support weapons building but didn't use many until later on where you started to really do well.

My mid game complaint was you built a second su-76 too late for a single su-76 to be relevant - probably should've just saved for your first T34-85.

I think your struggle with the kt was that you focused on it a bit too much. You had plenty of assets and fair map control when it hit the field and even some time after, but when you started throwing two t-34-85's at it without enough support you started loosing your numerical armor advantage and fuel advantage. Playing the flanks would've been my recommendation until you had a good position to push for it. When the KT goes for one side, you back out and go for the other. Plant mines when you take it and force the KT to try and be mobile until you can get an engine crit. Then go in for the kill.

Hopefully that helps, good playing!
4 Feb 2017, 09:18 AM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

Things you did well:

Good use of early mines. Mines win games and its good to see players use them.

Mistakes that could be improved:

When building units focus on getting that unit out as fast as possible. Early game your units were coming out much later than needed and this results in resource loss due to lack of territory.

AT nades came online a bit late for double kubels and con spam. Once you've got the cons you need and begin floating get those AT nades against heavy kubel play. You'll be able to wipe them quicker and lower his capping power.

Don't float manpower, if you're struggling to snag those kubels on an open map like this or arnhem checkpoint for example, get a zis gun to destroy them since you already went T2. It may not be fantastic for capping, but anything is better than floating resources.

Didn't use the T70 self repair which will bring the shots needed from AT guns to kill the t70 from 2 to 3.

Indecisivness lost you your SU-76. Wanted to kill the luchs and took a shot for double faust. Could have chased with engine damage and probably killed the luchs and then lost your SU-76, but you lost your SU-76 anyways to the 2nd volley of double fausts.

Your first T34/85 came out onto the field and ran directly into the Schwer HQ for a frontal attack. You did not have knowledge of the rakaten locations or possible mines because you lacked a sweeper. You were not punished because the rakatens were out of position and no mines were planted but you could have lost your T34-85 very quickly had you been. Always have sweepers and infantry to support.

Unsure why the 2nd SU-76 was created when you had to wait a full minute to get another T34/85.

KT was fielded around 400/170 VPs your favor.

30:45 Those engineers sure went out with a bang.

Lost a vet 3 T34/85 because you didn't have a sweeper or infantry support when you went after the KT. Moments later could've snared the KT with a con squad but didn't go in for it. SU-85 was in position to attack as well, but wasn't on focused sight. Generally you want to leave your SU-85 on focused sight because inorder to disable it after enabled there is a CD. If you pop it on and need it off immediatly you could lose your SU-85 because of the reduced movement speed and sight. Leaving it on will allow for enhanced sight range forward and as long as you support it no loss in peripheral vision. And if you get into trouble just take off focused sight and back away.

49:10 could've wiped a vet 5 volks on a demo charge, didn't detonate it.

Dealing with KTs as soviets is easy enough as long as you know what you're doing and when to do it. The 2 best strategies are using SU85s to deal the damage from long range, when the KT advances, you reverse move the SU85 and because the KT is to slow to catch the SU85 you just continue to shoot him while he cannot shoot back. you'll have around a 60% chance to pen front armor with a SU85 at max range so it's decent. The 2nd tactic is to swarm with T34s. Mass T34s, circle the KT, ram if need be to disable something and take it down from the rear. Snaring a KT with a mine is also ups your chance of success significantly. Your SU85 did not succeed this match because of its position. Placing it mid was completely fine, but if you noticed when it died it was being blocked by a wood pile and couldn't reverse move immediatly when the KT moved up. Inrange of a KT SU85s will never win if both tanks are at max HP. Just need to be more wary of potential envirormental obstructions.

Overall you did well. Early captures were strong and took out his T4 with your first medium armor and zis. Need to use more combined arms though, a lot of times I saw just armor or infantry moving into a position and led to retreats occasionally because the threat one of them faced could not be dealt with by that unit type. Personally I'd rely on SU85s to deal with KTs because T34 rushes can be crushed very quickly if the tanks hit a mine or take a faust and the KT has support of rakatens. Lastly, you NEED sweepers. you hit mines countless times that game and never built a sweeper. That luchs lived far to long that game. If it shows itself when you have medium armor, move your infantry with your armor and sweeper and rush him down if appropriate.
4 Feb 2017, 10:17 AM
#5
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 5441 | Subs: 35



If you can give some tips I will be very thankful.


Look here:
https://www.coh2.org/forum/109/replay-reviews
5 Feb 2017, 06:05 AM
#6
avatar of SturmKäse

Posts: 7

Kalvadra: Thanks for the advice, I think you're right about how trying to fight the KT frontally was a waste of my numerical adventage, I could make a better use of my tanks just using them in another point. Is funny how I did exactly that in the game after the replay and win like that against a JagdTiger without even trying to fight it, but didn't think about it in this game.

I think early on you could've gone mortar a bit quicker considering that this map relies on small green cover patches


A mortar would have been really useful to push the enemy out of cover as you said.

---

ShadowLinkX37: I didn't even think about a early ZiS but in this especific situation it could have been really helpful along with a early AT grenade.

Didn't use the T70 self repair which will bring the shots needed from AT guns to kill the t70 from 2 to 3.


I didn't know about the T-70 self repair ability allowing it to take another shot, definitely I will take it into account since I usually lose the T-70 because I can't get out of range fast enought and end up taking a second hit.

Your first T34/85 came out onto the field and ran directly into the Schwer HQ for a frontal attack. You did not have knowledge of the rakaten locations or possible mines because you lacked a sweeper. You were not punished because the rakatens were out of position and no mines were planted but you could have lost your T34-85 very quickly had you been. Always have sweepers and infantry to support.


If I recall correctly I think I sended my T-34 in a frontal atack because I knew the Raketenwerfer was not there, I think I have spoted it in the left, but I didn't think that he may have a second Raketenwer hidden protecting the Schwer HQ, or mines, I was very lucky that it ended up well.

30:45 Those engineers sure went out with a bang.


That fail was quite funny, I will remember to not plant demo charges under indirect fire.

Generally you want to leave your SU-85 on focused sight because inorder to disable it after enabled there is a CD. If you pop it on and need it off immediatly you could lose your SU-85 because of the reduced movement speed and sight. Leaving it on will allow for enhanced sight range forward and as long as you support it no loss in peripheral vision. And if you get into trouble just take off focused sight and back away.


That's very important, defenitively will help me to make a better use of the SU-85.

Lastly, you NEED sweepers. you hit mines countless times that game and never built a sweeper.


I don't even know how could I forget to give minesweepers to my second engineers squad, is something that I do every game and not doing it was a huge mistake for me. My first engineers squad usually gets a flametrower.

---

Sturmpanther: Thanks, next time I will post in the correct forum.

---

I wasn't expecting so much help to be honest, I'm glad that I decided to come here looking for advice. Thanks to everybody to spend the time in giving me advice, I really apreciate it.
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