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Company of Heroes 3 with WhiteFlash Addendum

10 Mar 2019, 20:34 PM
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2724 | Subs: 4

Very good article, I like it a lot. Imagine a CoH3 with the best parts of CoH1 and CoH2. I'd pay 200$ for that.

About Snipers:

In my personal opinion, snipers should get a complete overhaul in CoH3. Snipers are not overpowered or anything, but I think I have never seen a more boring, infuriating and unfun mechanic in a RTS game. A counter-snipe is the only way to kill a perfectly micro'ed sniper, and versing double sniper strats on open, narrow maps with a no-sniper faction is stupid as hell, all you can do is blobbing. At least in CoH2 they were way less annoying.

Oh and since I think it wasnt mentioned in the article: I hope we will see a comeback of the CoH1 operations (Stonewall, Assault and Tank War), I really miss those a lot :'(

10 Mar 2019, 22:25 PM
avatar of Budwise
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Donator 11

Posts: 2074 | Subs: 2

Unless a toilet was flushed and all the horrible Relic concoctions of the past were passed to turd land I don't see this happening. I have exactly zero faith that Relic/Sega could release another COH game in a professional and competitive manner.
11 Mar 2019, 00:11 AM
avatar of LooniestRumble

Posts: 40

The last solution to any mechanic or idea implemented in a COH game should be to remove it. This goes for the abandon mechanic, or cold tech, or the crazy RNG that can happen, etc.

They may require serious overhauls, in many aspects, but the concepts behind them are not bad, some of them are even great.

If COH3 had nothing new, not a single mechanic or model, nothing, just the things already made for COH1 and 2 polished to a extreme, not only would it be one of the best RTS ever, it would look like a completly different game, it would like the perfect COH game.

11 Mar 2019, 09:55 AM
avatar of BartonPL

Posts: 2806 | Subs: 6

dunmno if it was mentioned, cuz there's a lot of shit texts that i dont wantd to read, but imo the priority (apart of balance ofc) are faction designs and propaganda, bcs you see, CoH1 was great due to propaganda it spread by voice acting, abilities and eveything of this sort, CoH2 lacks the propaganda of that such, not to mention the horrible voice acting.

Secondly a good game reputation is build on campaign where you also need to build it up on propaganda (especially if its WW2 game) so when you're playing germans you want to show how good they are, every action was legitimate, that they were pushed into war, when you're playing Murica you want to hear that they were a heroes that liberated europe etc
11 Mar 2019, 14:49 PM
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

I just want to say that some of these CoH 2 gifs once more show how good CoH 2 looks without the UI. CoH 2's UI does a fantastic job at distracting the eye from the actual game's good graphics. The UI feels clutterred and its backgrounds have too much "aggressive" contrast that draws the eye's attention to it.

Here are the major culprits in terms of UI design:
- inconsistent design/style of the factions' unit portraits
- unnecessary UI "icing" in the form of rusty metal pieces (too much contrast, thus immediately feels cluttered, actual buttons for interaction become harder to spot for new players, no "clear"/"clean" feel to the interface)
- very unnecessary unit shields with the number "1" floating above tanks (as if they were infantry squads -- Every tank is a "one-man-squad", so this display holds no useful information whatsoever, it is yet another example of unncessarily cluttering the UI; the shield itsself distracts from the tanks' good unit models by unnecessarily cluttering the field with useless little shield symbols - a simple health bar would've done the job!)
- unnecessary UI middle part with a text that often tells little of importance and only stays interesting for a little time when you are new to the game (but, if done right, this text can at least be used to give unique personality and character to the different unit types, by means of background information)
- unnecessary addition of weapon upgrade symbols above unit shields for units that always spawn with these weapons anyways (these weapon symbols are only necessary when a distinction between upgraded and unupgraded versions of units is necessary!)

... except for the very practical unit cards in the top right corner, everything about CoH 2's UI feels un-elegant. A more minimalistic UI would've been better!
The CoH games have good graphics and atmosphere and should highlight that. In the case of such games it could actually be wiser to create a smaller UI that takes up less space on the screen. Just look at how Battle For Middle Earth basically left the middle section of the UI blank in order to show more of the field.
12 Mar 2019, 08:40 AM
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 2086 | Subs: 2

I do not understand why people whine about abandoned tanks - it is interesting, fun and realistic. I am absolutely for this mechanic and I wish it would remain in the game.
12 Mar 2019, 13:31 PM
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 706 | Subs: 1

in a compective way abandon tanksshould not exist because having a "extra free" veicle or armor it no MP or fuel cost its like cheeting vs you oponent i truly agree that abandoned veicle or armor should be remove on compective area !
12 Mar 2019, 15:07 PM
avatar of Kamphuys

Posts: 5

+1 for the article
13 Mar 2019, 02:13 AM
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Well written as always, Whiteflash.

I hope that hard work like this will pay off for the future of the CoH franchise some day.

I'm excited to already have seen this video by AE:

It's exciting to see other members come out and provide exciting new innovative ideas.

If we pool our minds together, the future will be a bright and beautiful place.
13 Mar 2019, 02:15 AM
avatar of WhiteFlash
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Benefactor 119

Posts: 1278 | Subs: 1

That is the kind of stuff I want to catalyze with these articles, +1 to AE's well though out interface, and props to everyone thinking about the future of the COH franchise in a constructive way and posting about it. Cheers!

13 Mar 2019, 09:56 AM
avatar of Fluffi

Posts: 211

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 02:13 AMNosliw
Well written as always, Whiteflash.

I hope that hard work like this will pay off for the future of the CoH franchise some day.

I'm excited to already have seen this video by AE:

It's exciting to see other members come out and provide exciting new innovative ideas.

If we pool our minds together, the future will be a bright and beautiful place.

I know that this page is about a potential CoH 3 and how it could be done better in the future - but damnit, I really want to see these UI changes implemented in CoH 2!

It makes the game look so much better. The segment about the minimap in AE's video perfectly illustrates the wrong design philospophy behind Relic's UI design: They wanted to make it too pretty, with too much "icing".... problem is, the game's actual graphics are just too good, no kind of 2d UI graphic, no matter how much they polish it, can be as good as that, and consequently, any sort of unnecessarily polished UI only reduces the overall aesthetic impression of the game, no matter how well polished it is.

The best solution, as pointed out in the video, is a minimalistic and functionality-oriented UI that aims at occupying as few screen space as possible. Only that way can the game shine aesthetically, because then it will highlight its best graphical parts, the actual 3d graphics in the field, in an appropriate manner.

In a way, CoH 2's UI design seems to be like the super-detailed graphics of some smaller games these day, which are purely 2d and seek to create a "modern" feel nonetheless by compensating for the lack of actual 3d graphics by creating these very detailed, high-resouoltion 2d graphics. Thing is, CoH 2 does not need that. At all.
14 Mar 2019, 12:36 PM
avatar of Mithiriath
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Posts: 730 | Subs: 3

+1 WhiteFlash
+1 A_E

23 Mar 2019, 17:44 PM
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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Patrion 314

Posts: 10627 | Subs: 9

Thank you, WF! :)

My pet hate is the font used for the VPs in COH2, which I find difficult to read other when playing. Invariably, it detracts from the enjoyment of watching games in Obs mode. Is the COH2 font Arial?

I don't know why the COH1 font was changed, bcs it was fine as it was.
23 Mar 2019, 17:51 PM
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2153 | Subs: 15

I suggested this in private, but here we go.

Someone with modding skills make a CoH3 mod CONCEPT for coh2. This mod will test and give subsidies to help Relic in development.

CoH3 concept mod

WF ideas in this artcile:

*The Abandon Mechanic
*no Click to Win Abilities

*No Commander Overlap by WF - https://www.coh2.org/topic/11064/commander-overlap-a-serious-problem

Inverse article in 2014:

*CoH1 global upgrades - https://www.coh2.org/topic/12973/strategy-in-company-of-heroes-2

And OFC test new factions design.

23 Mar 2019, 22:49 PM
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 706 | Subs: 1

the only thing that i want its panzer elite veterancy systeem and i will be happy by that! i ask just that!^^
26 Mar 2019, 12:06 PM
avatar of roarr

Posts: 33

Is there even a real chance for next CoH game?
6 Apr 2019, 08:00 AM
avatar of Lugie
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 327

Very noice, good-looking, and of course well written article. I dont know how much time you spent on this, but it was worth every day. However, I would say you forgot a few major things;
1. Modding. If CoH3 is locked off like CoH2 expect the game's lifespan to be very short. The locked-off modding of coh2 is the main reason i've nearly quit the game.
2. Expand on the casual stuff - Things like wounded soldiers, vehicle crits, squad-ai, etc. I dont mind if thats all taken out of competitive/multiplayer like in coh2, but keep it in casual/singleplayer.

I feel like the line between CoH and other rts games is being blurred, especially due to competitive players constantly yelling about balance. Over the years, CoH2 has been neutered to the point of nearly being a Dawn of War game, compared to CoH1. The biggest thing is not losing what makes CoH special, and that is, at least I think, is being a playable war-movie. I think with some of the recommendations you've made, there NEEDS to be a casual and competitive mode, similar to TF2 and other games.
6 Apr 2019, 16:47 PM
avatar of WhiteFlash
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Benefactor 119

Posts: 1278 | Subs: 1

Please reference the first article for mod support ;)
24 Apr 2019, 00:51 AM
avatar of WhiteFlash
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Benefactor 119

Posts: 1278 | Subs: 1

More great forward looking COH3 content from HelpingHans

24 Apr 2019, 07:44 AM
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