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Company of Heroes 3 with WhiteFlash

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11 Jun 2018, 13:16 PM
#2
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16639 | Subs: 12

FIRST! Epic effort WhiteFlash, and well-timed. :thumb: You get my wholehearted +1
11 Jun 2018, 13:16 PM
#3
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 10622 | Subs: 9

+1

A very considered piece, thoughtfully and respectfully compiled. Thank you all who contributed. :)

Matthew !3:23 and Mark 4:20
A_E
11 Jun 2018, 13:16 PM
#4
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2130 | Subs: 4

"Hi my name's WhiteFlash I made one good map 7 years ago for CoH1 and it's now the most balanced and highly respected competitive 1v1 map in CoH2.

I barely even play this game these days, but I have huge balls and had a spare 30 minutes, so I'm here to tell you exactly how to not screw up CoH3. Here's my beautiful article full of magic images. See you in 2020."

Fixed that for you ;)

+1
11 Jun 2018, 13:59 PM
#5
avatar of |GB| The Hooligan486
Senior Referee Badge

Posts: 3601 | Subs: 1

Amazing article :drool:
11 Jun 2018, 14:19 PM
#6
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 752 | Subs: 3

Replace Camera WASD with Basic Self Hotkei Selection.
11 Jun 2018, 14:42 PM
#7
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Nice job man. I love you.

+1
11 Jun 2018, 14:43 PM
#8
avatar of fredisalvo

Posts: 5

great article!! looking foward to coh3!!
tks!
11 Jun 2018, 14:47 PM
#9
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4846 | Subs: 16

great article!! looking foward to coh3!!
tks!


Better look forward that aoE4 will have success :P
11 Jun 2018, 15:07 PM
#10
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1510

Sorry I dont wan´t to be mean but why not just be honest and say "I prefer VCOH and think COH2 is bad. So please Relic make COH3 like VCOH".

Most of the points made are just artifically made up stuff that is either completly unimportant or based of personal preference. Like the stuff about VCOH having better XP art, VP circle art, vehicle UI, deflection effects. I find all of this better in COH2. But that´s just personal preference and definitly NOT important at all.

I understand a lot of effort went into this but in the end most of your points can´t convince me. I agree about the need to improve post-game statistics, better maps, more community features in game. But most other points are just saying how VCOH is better than COH2, and the problem is you don´t really bring up convincing arguments regarding why this might be true.

So yeah...sorry to disagree.

Something that needs to be brought back that kept the push pull of COH1 very interesting was population cap being directly connected to the number of points controlled. You do not feel the punishment of being cutoff from resources in COH2 as you did in COH1 and that adds more thought, depth and consequences to neglecting cutoffs.


Cut-offs are already super powerful in COH2. Just look at maps like Elst where basically everyone just wants to rush enemy cut-offs in early game. I completly disagree with making them even stronger. Pop cap should not be tied to the ressource points you have.
11 Jun 2018, 15:14 PM
#11
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 253

Nice article, u were able to synthesize my fully consideration about a potential coh3. Well done! And ofc +1

EDIT

I would add a little thing. COH3 should show during the loading screen of a game the ranks of players. It's a non sense i need a third part software for knowing who i'm facing
11 Jun 2018, 15:21 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1510


I would add a little thing. COH3 should show during the loading screen of a game the ranks of players. It's a non sense i need a third part software for knowing who i'm facing



100% disagree. The amount of ppl dropping instantly would be so annoying.
11 Jun 2018, 15:29 PM
#13
avatar of LegioxRoma

Posts: 253




100% disagree. The amount of ppl dropping instantly would be so annoying.


If a player want to drop just because is facing an high ranked player that doesnt mean it will not after 5 mins of playing

During vcoh i always appreciate knowing who i was facing: facing an high rank player made me start always more focused on what i was doing, facing a lower player, instead, made me trying different strats.

And btw also in coh2 several matches i face quitters and there's no rank visible.
11 Jun 2018, 15:29 PM
#14
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Nice article, u were able to synthesize my fully consideration about a potential coh3. Well done! And ofc +1

EDIT

I would add a little thing. COH3 should show during the loading screen of a game the ranks of players. It's a non sense i need a third part software for knowing who i'm facing


What a great idea Roma. I really miss that about CoH1 days.
11 Jun 2018, 15:33 PM
#15
avatar of 0ld_Shatterhand
Donator 22

Posts: 188

Great article.
One thing that needs to be more emphasized in my opinion is, that commanders absolutely should be free. If we look at Steam, most of the negative reviews complain about pay to win. And that's always the case even with very cheap commanders.
Relic should heavily focus on customization to make money. There are so many opportunities. All that we have now and much, much more: unit skins, unit voice packs, announcer voice packs etc.




100% disagree. The amount of ppl dropping instantly would be so annoying.


There are many existing systems, that prevent that. Matchmaking time ban just to name one.
A_E
11 Jun 2018, 16:02 PM
#16
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2130 | Subs: 4

Great article.
One thing that needs to be more emphasized in my opinion is, that commanders absolutely should be free. If we look at Steam, most of the negative reviews complain about pay to win. And that's always the case even with very cheap commanders.
Relic should heavily focus on customization to make money. There are so many opportunities. All that we have now and much, much more: unit skins, unit voice packs, announcer voice packs etc.



There are many existing systems, that prevent that. Matchmaking time ban just to name one.


Number one biggest complaint with this game was the pay2win DLC commander model.

Just felt so dirty and morally bankrupt. I can only justify it from Relic's side because they would have had cash flow issues and uncertainty after THQ collapsed, and it's a cheap way to extend the profitability of a release. Also let's just be glad they survived, because they're the makers of our favourite series..

But from a logical perspective: I would bet my life that they probably lost out on so many game sales through negative publicity and word of mouth. My best guess is that they had a net negative effect on their prosperity through these DLC models.

For those that don't know: every major release of this game from Day 1 to the expansion packs came with Day 1 pay2win DLC commanders that reused assets that you had already paid your money for, sold them back to you - and could be used to gain a strategic advantage in automatch.

Worse yet for a lot of the Commanders the DLC released letter gave you recycled standard tools such as flamethrowers that were stripped out of them on release, so you had to buy the DLC to get the functionality back. And let's not mention that some of the DLC commanders were game breakingly OP. I got into Soviet top 100 1v1 just by abusing Soviet Industry 4 minute T70s.... me!

That isn't an exaggeration. It was the Starwars Battlefront II effect in 2013, I witnessed it first hand... I hung out with a Starcraft II clan at the time, and every member put their Steam name to "don't buy CoH2 it's pay2win BS". Then again in 2015 with the release of Brits and their paid Angry Joe review ranting about pay2win.

It was all so sad to behold.
11 Jun 2018, 16:27 PM
#17
avatar of rjppunk

Posts: 1

Great article Flash. +1
11 Jun 2018, 17:12 PM
#18
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1510

My ideas for COH3:

- Anti blob debuff...if you blob up more than two mainline infantry units (or elite infantry) you get a 1.1 (maybe 1.2) RA modifier

- Everyone has the same doctrines/factions. Lots of cosmetic stuff that you can buy with real money

- Competitive mode that allows rule changes and different balance. this is important IMO because it´s impossible to balance 1v1 top level play while also keeping 4v4 balanced

- Much more community input into relic´s balancing/overall decision making from day one

- Stable game that doesn´t require restart after every second or third game.

- Appealing graphics and atmosphere must be a priority to attract a bigger playerbase. Maybe even something like cold-tech (reworked obviously), stuff like that could be put in casual game modes while being disabled in competitive mode. Weather effects or day/night changes could help create more atmosphere even without impacting gameplay.

- Unique factions, I dont like the recent trend of making every faction the same.

- Unit controlls need to be way better. I hate how clumsy they feel. Vehicle pathing is part of this. Just doesn´t feel precise enough. Infantry needs to be prevented from clumping up all the time. Also input delay is a big issue still.

- MG mechanics need to be changed. I hate how long suppresion lasts in this game. I also hate how infantry can frontally run at MGs get supressed but still throw a grenade at the MG. Especially with Maxims and Volksgrens this is really stupid at the moment. Also MGs need to be able to scale better into late-game without dominating early game as much.

- Rocket arty needs to be limited. Maybe 2 pieces of rocket arty for one player. 3 pieces for a team of 2. 4 for a team of 3 etc. Reason for this is that rocket arty completly destroys 3v3+. It´s just way too strong.

- No more insane units like Jagdtiger or Elefant please. It´s just not fun and creates balance issues to have units like that. They are useless in 1v1 and totally OP in 3v3+. Impossible to balance right.

- No more emplacements. Also no more self spotting, pop cap free Bunkers. Generally no doctrines that support abusive playstyles. (Advanced Emplacement Doctrine, I mean wtf)

- Other PVP games show that teamplay is generally prefered over playing alone. Which is why I think the potential of a competitive 1v1 scene is smaller than the potential of a competitive 2v2+ scene. Keeping this in mind there should be more focus on team-games. Better maps, better balance, mechanics that make abusive playstyles like blobbing or arty spam less effective. This would benefit the team game playerbase COH2 has and also give COH a chance to maybe shift the competitive focus on something other than 1v1 only.

- Statistics and good replay system with lots of features and analytical tools. Maybe locked behind a pay-wall to compensate for not offering P2W doctrines
11 Jun 2018, 17:24 PM
#19
avatar of jesulin
Donator 11

Posts: 582 | Subs: 11

Great article WhiteFlash

I hope to see the best features of both games (vCoH and CoH2) together.

One thing I would add is to know your ELO score.
11 Jun 2018, 18:32 PM
#20
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 620

Great article Flash.
No words !
Very detailed article !
11 Jun 2018, 19:01 PM
#21
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1340

I agree with almost everything.

+1
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