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CoH will Never Die Tournament II

15 Feb 2017, 16:51 PM
#42
avatar of MajorBloodnok
Admin Red  Badge
Patrion 314

Posts: 9140 | Subs: 8

This map list is garbage.


Translation = omit RoR and FP? :unsure: Please at least let them know what the subs should be. ;)
16 Feb 2017, 18:05 PM
#43
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31

This map list is garbage.


You´re not the only one, who dislikes the map-roundup. We noticed that and will probably please more people next time. The upcoming tournament is not the last one we will make. Changes of rules are somtetimes necessary to do as fas as possible, but in some cases it´s better to do it next time.

And yeah, just calling it garbage is not cool. I mean, i take it personal, but i like to talk in another way to people.

So let me say it again: We took notice what the feelings on the map-pool are.

If you dislike other things as well, let us know.
16 Feb 2017, 18:19 PM
#44
avatar of WhiteFlash
Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 850 | Subs: 1

didnt mean to come off as an ass

with the number of 1v1 coh tournaments that have been played a map list selection process should be straightforward and simple thats all i meant.

using maps that werent used in the most positive and well remembered tournaments doesnt make sense. historical empirical data has to be taken into consideration in order to assist in putting on the most best tournament possible.

if i had to recommend a map list, it would be the last COH1 SNF list. i think coh experts, veteran tournament organizers and seasoned broadcasters would agree with that.

id be happy to elaborate on this more but my time is short for posting this. cheers.
16 Feb 2017, 20:24 PM
#45
avatar of Kaos
Referee Badge

Posts: 91

I can assure you the map pool will be different for every tournament cause I like to bring up new stuff, so the argument that the "old" tournaments has the best map is valid in common sense, but invalid for my personal idea to always bring something new.

Also people should be happy all of this is even happening + the map pool is an "automatch" type map pool where every player has at least 2 veto votes so you can veto out those 2 "bad" maps.

And the last thing, you can never satisfy everyone with your choices cause everyone is simply different.
17 Feb 2017, 04:38 AM
#46
avatar of WhiteFlash
Mapmaker Badge
Benefactor 119

Posts: 850 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Feb 2017, 20:24 PMKaos
you can never satisfy everyone with your choices cause everyone is simply different.


true <444>3
18 Feb 2017, 03:08 AM
#47
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16361 | Subs: 13

There's nothing "new" or good about having Ruins of Rouen or Flooded Plains in the map pool. They're just utterly terrible maps that are not fit for tournament play, particularly when there is money at stake.

Those maps aren't even in automatch, are they? Wrecked Traim & Blow Lowlands are in automatch. Those maps are pretty bad, but even those would be much better than Ruins and Flooded.

And I agree w Flash, Argentan & Beau du Chatelet would be even better.
18 Feb 2017, 03:48 AM
#48
avatar of Kaos
Referee Badge

Posts: 91

Next time guys :)
20 Feb 2017, 05:05 AM
#49
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31

Hey guys,

don´t forget that Kaos will stream the bracket-making live today on his twitch channel.

https://www.twitch.tv/unholyblackmetal666

8pm London Time.

After the brackets were made, you can´t sign up anymore. So make sure you join the tournament befoure. That goes out to some guys who played recently, showed interest, but didnt signed up yet, like tommy, aimstrong etc.

Enjoy it. And questions, critic, ideas etc. post here or in privat to Kaos.
20 Feb 2017, 17:35 PM
#50
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

Gonna take a pass on this one, but it's a good player line up so looking forward to the casts!

I see others have weighed in on the map list already so I won't pile on, but a firm time and date is much more appealing to most players than a broad 'find your opponent' 3-5 day window. At least if you set a firm time you know everyone signing up can turn up (at least in theory).

Dragging the whole thing out over such a timescale also increases the likelihood that your finalists won't be able to show up.
20 Feb 2017, 19:08 PM
#51
avatar of Kaos
Referee Badge

Posts: 91

That is a whole discussion about that, I tried to give busy people a chance to play, if you put a fixed time schedule, I'm pretty sure I would have 16 players and not 64 in the tournament.

Last time we did it like this, and it worked pretty well.

Also the 3rd day has a firm date in case people didn't agree in first 2 days.

And the "finding your opponent" thing is easy cause all the participants will be in a steamgroup with an opened discussion for their match so they can arrange it there while the referees can see it anytime of the day to determine "stuff".
20 Feb 2017, 19:11 PM
#52
avatar of Kaos
Referee Badge

Posts: 91

Anyway, big thanks to all of you here for your critics and advice. That will help me make a better tournament next time for sure :)
21 Feb 2017, 04:24 AM
#53
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31

BRACKETS

Hey guys,

these are the brackets, which were made yesterday evening.

http://challonge.com/tournaments/bracket_generator?ref=8tjrmE0FQN

If you dislike the way they were made, just tell us. But please stay friendly while doing it. :)

Have fun.


STEAM GROUP

For the matchmaking we use our steam-group. It is necessary. If you don´t join, we think you´re not there and not ready to play over the next days.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/cohwillneverdie

21 Feb 2017, 15:08 PM
#54
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16361 | Subs: 13

Oh snap, Aimstrong <444>3

P.S. if Noggano and Aimstrong could meet in the Ro16, you've got some issues with your seeding :P
21 Feb 2017, 23:24 PM
#55
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31

We can´t have Devm, Noggano and Aimstrong in the finals forever. It´s hard to bring back the attention to COH. There should be a way to bring new faces over, let them grow and become modern legends. The Top-Players were seeded. We could have place the seeds on certain spots, but do we really want to know who will play in the semi-finals even from the beginning? I don´t think so.

A top-matchup in round 3 could also bring a caster, streamer, youtuber to pick up and cast that match. It´s a bit sadly, that this huge tournament with an indrecible amount of top-players will only be casted when the finals began. Giving a reason to cast some matches earlier could be a good thing. It´s not about taking the best pieces and make yourself more famous and popular. It´s about supporting the tourney and the players at all. Things can´t grow, if people pick only one game to cast or even talk about.
21 Feb 2017, 23:33 PM
#56
avatar of Tommy

Posts: 742 | Subs: 2

The seeds look fine, but there's no point deliberately low-balling players just to try to give the underdog a chance. If an underdog deserves to be in the final they'll get through anyway - you run the risk of the final being a total whitewash.
22 Feb 2017, 01:46 AM
#57
avatar of AmiPolizeiFunk
Admin Black Badge
Patrion 15

Posts: 16361 | Subs: 13

A top-matchup in round 3 could also bring a caster, streamer, youtuber to pick up and cast that match. It´s a bit sadly, that this huge tournament with an indrecible amount of top-players will only be casted when the finals began. Giving a reason to cast some matches earlier could be a good thing. It´s not about taking the best pieces and make yourself more famous and popular. It´s about supporting the tourney and the players at all. Things can´t grow, if people pick only one game to cast or even talk about.


I don't understand this. Are you saying that would-be top-seeds matching up too early could be a good thing because a youtuber or streamer might cast the game from a round that they wouldn't have touched otherwise? That's not a good reason to knock a possible finalist out of your tourney in the Ro16, particularly when it's a money tournament that pays multiple places. If you're gonna run single-elim, the seeds are very important (if it was double-elim, much less so).

When you say "It´s not about taking the best pieces and make yourself more famous and popular," who is the "yourself" in this statement?

This is an understandably tough bunch to seed as many vet players are returning after not having played for a long time. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you seeded it at all!

Should be a pretty interesting event.
22 Feb 2017, 01:58 AM
#58
avatar of r3ckonner

Posts: 6

I could cast some of the games in the first few rounds. My last casting schtick was in the last tournament with Kaos. I've been away from doing anything voice related for quite some time, but I am shoutcasting a few games (vcoh or coh2 games) to warm up in preparation for the first real games to come through.

I'll make it spectacle!

I'll MAKE CoH1 GREAT AGAIN!

Or at least not make it go into hypovolemic shock.
22 Feb 2017, 07:45 AM
#59
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31



I don't understand this. Are you saying that would-be top-seeds matching up too early could be a good thing because a youtuber or streamer might cast the game from a round that they wouldn't have touched otherwise? That's not a good reason to knock a possible finalist out of your tourney in the Ro16, particularly when it's a money tournament that pays multiple places. If you're gonna run single-elim, the seeds are very important (if it was double-elim, much less so).

When you say "It´s not about taking the best pieces and make yourself more famous and popular," who is the "yourself" in this statement?

This is an understandably tough bunch to seed as many vet players are returning after not having played for a long time. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that you seeded it at all!

Should be a pretty interesting event.


"I" say, that it´s a good thing, that we dont have BkModTest,Aimstrong,DevM,Noggano in the semi finals for sure, cause without Aljaz, Sibernian Platoon and other legends, that is what the people had many times in the past. Except BkModTest, but he is a guy, you can expect in the finals these days for sure.

Nobody wants legends facing each other too early, but my opinion is, that "too" is probably only Round 1 and Round 2. Even if i disliked the possibility of round 3 first like you do.

The Brackets this time were more a single-man job. The tournament-thing startet with Kaos, the team is getting closer. Kaos also wanted to live-stream alone, he put much effort and passion in that, he really wanted to make it great. If i had to create the brackets, i would have stretch 4 guys as most as even possible. So they can face each other not befour the semi-finals. Even if it´s boring, when that happens. We all apreciate the legends, but we all know, that many guys only come back for tournaments and have other hobbys now. So some good guys facing each other befoure the semi-finals isn´t a worst case scenario for me. Even if i didnt chose that this could happen.

We don´t stop to talk about your critic, ideas etc. So Jason, we got your point. At the end of the day, i would do what the community wants. What the team decides, we will see.

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Feb 2017, 23:33 PMTommy
The seeds look fine, but there's no point deliberately low-balling players just to try to give the underdog a chance. If an underdog deserves to be in the final they'll get through anyway - you run the risk of the final being a total whitewash.


As far as i remember correctly, the spots for the seeded player were also random, which could have done better or worse. I wouldnt chose to let legends face each other too early, even if i kinda like it. Earliert, but not too early. Cause i know, that many people would dislike that. And like i said, at the end, the community decides. Thats at least my point.


22 Feb 2017, 08:34 AM
#60
avatar of Guderian

Posts: 155

Am I drunk or was I somehow seeded #1? :D Thats a first. Gonna be a nice upset when I crash out in R1 :D

As for the map pool btw, I like it. I havent played in ages, yet I'm still sick of ango semo langres every game. So I'll take a ruins of roen game just for the fun of it ;)

P.S. I'm not sure if I can do a livecast of something (living in China behind the f***ing Great Firewall and all) but I'll definitely cast some games in one form or another. Did some casting back in the day with mostly positive feedback, had a blast doing it too. If anyone wants to team up on this or something, pm me here.
22 Feb 2017, 08:52 AM
#61
avatar of CoH will never die

Posts: 31

Am I drunk or was I somehow seeded #1? :D Thats a first. Gonna be a nice upset when I crash out in R1 :D

As for the map pool btw, I like it. I havent played in ages, yet I'm still sick of ango semo langres every game. So I'll take a ruins of roen game just for the fun of it ;)

P.S. I'm not sure if I can do a livecast of something (living in China behind the f***ing Great Firewall and all) but I'll definitely cast some games in one form or another. Did some casting back in the day with mostly positive feedback, had a blast doing it too. If anyone wants to team up on this or something, pm me here.


Don´t worry, the numbers doesnt mean much. We tried to seed the best players, but i think 1-2 spots for seeded players are a bit unlucky.

Guderian, it would be cool, if you stream some matches, but don´t feel forced to do. :)
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