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The Hard Talk: Community Contributors

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30 Jan 2016, 16:48 PM
#2
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Enjoyed reading this during the editing and I like the way it's come out.
A_E
30 Jan 2016, 16:54 PM
#3
avatar of A_E
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I have a lot of respect for IpkaiFung - great guy who did a lot for the community in the past.

But this article, in my opinion, has come out at the exact wrong time.

Right now Relic have never been better in terms of supporting the community and competitive scene for Company of Heroes, even if they've been pretty terrible in the past.

Already with ESL they've shown a massive willingness to listen and get things right, and they've honed the rules etc. until they're now pretty damn good.

As one of the casters chosen to cast ESL, I feel that Ipkai's criticism of us working seemingly for free is misguided. We've received goodies from Relic around Christmas, and since ESL, and have been given a unique opportunity to promote our channels etc. so it's all good, and none of us feel exploited etc. It's a mutually beneficial arrangement that we're all completely at ease with, and have a great relationship with Relic's CM Kyle etc.

So yeah, understandable article, but an increasingly outdated viewpoint.

30 Jan 2016, 16:56 PM
#4
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1683 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 16:54 PMA_E


I'm privy



But everyone else isn't, it only creates a feeling of us and them and it's totally wrong.
30 Jan 2016, 16:57 PM
#5
avatar of Inverse
Coder Red Badge

Posts: 1673 | Subs: 5

Good read, pretty much agree with everything. ESL is a major disappointment. The optimism of some that this is just a taste of things to come is admirable, but seems rooted in emotion rather than reason. When you compare Relic's level of engagement with that of pretty much any other developer that attempts to support competition, it's pretty clear how little effort is being spent on working to make this venture a success.
30 Jan 2016, 17:00 PM
#6
avatar of MajorBloodnok
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jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 16:57 PMInverse
Good read, pretty much agree with everything. ESL is a major disappointment. The optimism of some that this is just a taste of things to come is admirable, but seems rooted in emotion rather than reason. When you compare Relic's level of engagement with that of pretty much any other developer that attempts to support competition, it's pretty clear how little effort is being spent on working to make this venture a success.


I agree.
A_E
30 Jan 2016, 17:13 PM
#7
avatar of A_E
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But everyone else isn't, it only creates a feeling of us and them and it's totally wrong.


Agreed, removing that line from my response.

30 Jan 2016, 17:13 PM
#8
avatar of WhiteFlash
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Posts: 1279 | Subs: 1

get argentan in the map pool for esl and itll be better. promise.
30 Jan 2016, 17:16 PM
#9
avatar of Lümmel
Patrion 14

Posts: 542 | Subs: 1

Very good read! I think most of the coh2 community feels the same way you do, Ipkay. At least i do.
30 Jan 2016, 17:25 PM
#10
avatar of RitaBrush
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Posts: 804 | Subs: 2

I am with A_E on this.
30 Jan 2016, 17:29 PM
#11
avatar of l4hti

Posts: 476

A perfect example from retarded tournament organizers who dont know a shit about the game

CSS In third person....


Is Relic like this? I dont think so..
30 Jan 2016, 17:32 PM
#12
avatar of IpKaiFung
Benefactor 115

Posts: 1683 | Subs: 2

Funnily enough CGS was mentioned in an article I linked to.

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 16:54 PMA_E

So yeah, understandable article, but an increasingly outdated viewpoint.


It's only outdated because you're privy to future announcements, most people do not have that privilege. Personally I would advise you to be cautious of Relic's "Jam Tomorrow" promises. I should know, I was burned enough times by them.
30 Jan 2016, 18:21 PM
#13
avatar of edibleshrapnel

Posts: 552

I personally don't agree with the whole Competitive ESL set up that's happening, a little cash thrown in the air, some top players still spending time on it, but I feel like,

1. This is long overdue, and delayed mostly because of Relic's inability to properly establish a competitive through unbalanced maps and constantly adding in new content without first fixing what already existed.

2. They REALLY need to fix what they already have, and increase the viability of most of the commanders.

3. They need to be more informative on patches, such as what's going to be changed, when, and how people can contribute to make sure it balances an issue without bringing up another.

I do feel like Relic has slightly blind sighted on ESL, and promoting that over fixing the game and establishing ties with the community.

30 Jan 2016, 20:19 PM
#14
avatar of Mortar
Donator 22

Posts: 559

Good article.

It certainly seems to highlight in a respectful way the frustration of a well known community member in his attempt to work with Relic. I do recognize this is an opinion piece, and congratulate you on your well stated opinion based on years of experience with Relic. It has a lot of weight with me and the community.

However stating ESL is just Relic checking a box is HIGHLY speculative. You may in the end turn out to be right, but for now I find it counterproductive to complain Relic has held the community at arm's length over the years and when they FINALLY come forward with Go4Cup you simply dismiss it as doomed from the start. You have the right to that opinion of course just as others might raise an eyebrow at the opinion or its timing.

I know this won't happen, but I would be fascinated in hearing a response from Relic to this thread to hear their "side" of this.

I would point out that this article is being posted as a headline on Coh2.org. In order to post an article here with this type of prominence it certainly DOES take the support of Coh2.org and its leadership. To state the article doesn't necessarily represent the views of leadership of Coh2.org is disingenuous IMHO.

With all due respect Ipkai, as one member of Coh2.org staff, I know this article certainly doesn't necessarily represent MY overall view of the situation, nor do I feel that all "contributors" should be lumped into this viewpoint you expressed. I moderate Coh2.org. I've created a map for the community. I certainly consider myself a "contributor".

This is your opinion piece. Nobody else wrote the article. Just want to make that clear.

p.s. Thanks for opening the dialogue. Hopefully some good will come from it.

30 Jan 2016, 20:34 PM
#15
avatar of CookiezNcreem
Senior Strategist Badge
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Posts: 3051 | Subs: 15

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 20:19 PMMortar


With all due respect Ipkai, as one member of Coh2.org staff, I know this article certainly doesn't necessarily represent MY overall view of the situation, nor do I feel that all "contributors" should be lumped into this viewpoint you expressed. I've writen, updated, and edited guides, and spent much of my free time mentoring or helping newer players.I certainly consider myself a "contributor".




^^
Well said. +5,000,000.

fixed the bold part to fit me though :snfPeter:
30 Jan 2016, 21:12 PM
#16
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2


^^
Well said. +5,000,000.

fixed the bold part to fit me though :snfPeter:


+5,000,001
30 Jan 2016, 23:01 PM
#17
avatar of Kreatiir

Posts: 2816

I think Relic is actually working closer with the community Ipkai. They just do it with the wrong people.
I remember when you did ESL and received 0 from them, I remember Ami organizing OCF and receiving (next to) 0 from them, I remember me organizing tons of events with Rewind & One4One and receiving next to 0 support. For 141, I received some though.

It's because of our job, things like ESL now is actually working a bit. It's cause of events like OCF that people got interest again in these tournaments and it's because of the community's effort that this game is where it is. Months after months, Relic came up with ridiculous patches which made the game nearly unplayable. Cause of community efforts by playing the alpha, giving feedback and hammering on changes, that the game is where it is. It's because of the guides people wrote, cause of the Facebook VonKluge and his maintained, the events and casting by us, Stormless and others, the game is where it is.

Relic can kiss our hands and wash our feet cause we did this cause it helped their game becoming enjoyable. Many of us have put hours and hours of time in a game and got next to 0 recognition of Relic's side but I believe that has changed a bit. (Ingame adds, community spotlight, ...).

Newschoolers will disagree as they were not in the process which got the game to this stage. But who cares?

100$ Prizes? 250$ Prizes for ESL? Weird seeding, crappy overlays, A_E as lead caster who is only after promoting his channel, EU players winning NA brackets, always the same winner on EU side, weird rules, max 1000 viewers, ...
Call that an improvement? Lol. Compare that to the +2500 viewers of OCF, the hype, prizepool.

Yeah, improvement. Sure.
30 Jan 2016, 23:38 PM
#18
avatar of edibleshrapnel

Posts: 552

Imo, all this contention among some top players and site contributors should say something about the reputation Relic has garnered for itself, and I'm unsure why A_E is defending them as well. After all the dust has settled, and all the words spoken, ultimately we must recognize that the game isn't e-sport suitable. I'd like to know why it's happening now.
31 Jan 2016, 00:25 AM
#19
avatar of NorthWeapon
Donator 11

Posts: 593

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Jan 2016, 17:16 PMLümmel
I think most of the coh2 community feels the same way you do


Incorrect
31 Jan 2016, 01:37 AM
#20
avatar of Von Kluge
Patrion 14

Posts: 3548 | Subs: 2



Incorrect


Pretty much this. People tend to forget that a larger, far less vocal part of the community just enjoys compstomps or team games for fun.
It took Relic a while to get their stuff straight but I'm liking where Relic's going for the past (few) months. Ipkai, as much as I repsect your opinion, I feel like it's a bit too late for stuff like this. Just my two cents
31 Jan 2016, 06:00 AM
#21
avatar of RitaBrush
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Posts: 804 | Subs: 2

A_E as lead caster who is only after promoting his channel

Excuse me, but what's wrong with that?
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